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The European Union's investigation into the ECHELON program found otherwise. A high level overview is at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON#Concerns https:/

by ivarv 8y ago

The European Union's investigation into the ECHELON program found otherwise. A high level overview is at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON#Concerns https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON#Concerns The actual EU report is available at: http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/getDoc.do?pubRef=-//EP//NONSGML+REPORT+A5-2001-0264+0+DOC+PDF+V0//EN&language=EN http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/getDoc.do?pubRef=-//EP//...

adventured 8y ago
Is there something actually proven and more comprehensive, than speculation from two decades ago? Nearly all of the concerns listed in your Echelon link, are political in nature (eg about Princess Diana, or the five eyes with Canada spying on two British ministers for Britain in 1983), not examples of industrial IP theft. Baseless claims won't cut it. The US has had by far the world's largest economy for the last two decades. There should be dozens of legally proven - court cases - examples of intellectual property theft far worse and larger than anything China has done, given the scale difference of the economies over that time and the supposed capacity to hoover up global communications and put it to use in industrial espionage. Saying that well: here's one example, or here's two examples across 30 years, is not good enough to indict the world's largest and most technologically advanced economy for being rampant industrial thieves. To show a comprehensive pattern of deep industrial espionage, and to show that it isn't more along the lines of routine espionage that occurs between any two great economic powers, requires a lot more proof.
- dnomad 8y ago
  Such furious goal shifting. Demand evidence and then assert the evidence doesn't show rampant thievery. It's absolutely shameless.
- icebraining 8y ago
  There should be dozens of legally proven - court cases - examples of intellectual property theft far worse and larger than anything China has done, given the scale difference of the economies over that time and the supposed capacity to hoover up global communications and put it to use in industrial espionage. How many legally proven court cases against industrial espionage carried by the Chinese State are there?
nyolfen 8y ago
the only thing approaching 'stealing corporate secrets' in this is detecting bribery by european corporations trying to win contracts

by ivarv 8y ago

adventured 8y ago

Is there something actually proven and more comprehensive, than speculation from two decades ago? Nearly all of the concerns listed in your Echelon link, are political in nature (eg about Princess Diana, or the five eyes with Canada spying on two British ministers for Britain in 1983), not examples of industrial IP theft. Baseless claims won't cut it. The US has had by far the world's largest economy for the last two decades. There should be dozens of legally proven - court cases - examples of intellectual property theft far worse and larger than anything China has done, given the scale difference of the economies over that time and the supposed capacity to hoover up global communications and put it to use in industrial espionage. Saying that well: here's one example, or here's two examples across 30 years, is not good enough to indict the world's largest and most technologically advanced economy for being rampant industrial thieves. To show a comprehensive pattern of deep industrial espionage, and to show that it isn't more along the lines of routine espionage that occurs between any two great economic powers, requires a lot more proof.

dnomad 8y ago
Such furious goal shifting. Demand evidence and then assert the evidence doesn't show rampant thievery. It's absolutely shameless.
icebraining 8y ago
There should be dozens of legally proven - court cases - examples of intellectual property theft far worse and larger than anything China has done, given the scale difference of the economies over that time and the supposed capacity to hoover up global communications and put it to use in industrial espionage. How many legally proven court cases against industrial espionage carried by the Chinese State are there?

nyolfen 8y ago

the only thing approaching 'stealing corporate secrets' in this is detecting bribery by european corporations trying to win contracts