4 ms·

To the best of my knowledge, the US government has not stolen corporate secrets and forwarded them to their favored companies.

craftyguy 8y ago
I'm less concerned with corporate 'secrets' and more concerned with citizen privacy rights.
- kibwen 8y ago
  Foreign governments are not concerned with spying on you for the sake of tailoring ads to you. They are concerned with furthering state objectives, which may include proxying traffic through your computer for the purpose of concealing origin, infiltrating public and private infrastructure for the purpose of sabotage, exfiltrating corporate and state secrets, etc.
ivarv 8y ago
The European Union's investigation into the ECHELON program found otherwise. A high level overview is at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON#Concerns https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON#Concerns The actual EU report is available at: http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/getDoc.do?pubRef=-//EP//NONSGML+REPORT+A5-2001-0264+0+DOC+PDF+V0//EN&language=EN http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/getDoc.do?pubRef=-//EP//...
- adventured 8y ago
  Is there something actually proven and more comprehensive, than speculation from two decades ago? Nearly all of the concerns listed in your Echelon link, are political in nature (eg about Princess Diana, or the five eyes with Canada spying on two British ministers for Britain in 1983), not examples of industrial IP theft. Baseless claims won't cut it. The US has had by far the world's largest economy for the last two decades. There should be dozens of legally proven - court cases - examples of intellectual property theft far worse and larger than anything China has done, given the scale difference of the economies over that time and the supposed capacity to hoover up global communications and put it to use in industrial espionage. Saying that well: here's one example, or here's two examples across 30 years, is not good enough to indict the world's largest and most technologically advanced economy for being rampant industrial thieves. To show a comprehensive pattern of deep industrial espionage, and to show that it isn't more along the lines of routine espionage that occurs between any two great economic powers, requires a lot more proof.
  - dnomad 8y ago
    Such furious goal shifting. Demand evidence and then assert the evidence doesn't show rampant thievery. It's absolutely shameless.
  - icebraining 8y ago
    There should be dozens of legally proven - court cases - examples of intellectual property theft far worse and larger than anything China has done, given the scale difference of the economies over that time and the supposed capacity to hoover up global communications and put it to use in industrial espionage. How many legally proven court cases against industrial espionage carried by the Chinese State are there?
- nyolfen 8y ago
  the only thing approaching 'stealing corporate secrets' in this is detecting bribery by european corporations trying to win contracts
ac29 8y ago
"The government does not deny it routinely spies to advance American economic advantage" https://theintercept.com/2014/09/05/us-governments-plans-use-economic-espionage-benefit-american-corporations/ https://theintercept.com/2014/09/05/us-governments-plans-use...
amoshi 8y ago
In an interview with Germany's ARD TV channel, the former NSA contractor said the agency would spy on big German companies that competed with US firms. [0] President Barack Obama got a list of talking points that United Nations Secretary General Ban Ki-moon hoped to hit on during a one-on-one meeting, courtesy of the NSA's X-Keyscore program. - not economic but it's hard to imagine this tactic wouldn't apply to economy related meetings [1,2] [0] https://www.bbc.com/news/25907502 https://www.bbc.com/news/25907502 [1] https://www.cnet.com/news/nsas-spying-on-united-nations-and-others-detailed-in-newly-published-documents/ https://www.cnet.com/news/nsas-spying-on-united-nations-and-... [2] https://theintercept.com/document/2015/07/01/un-secretary-general-xks/ https://theintercept.com/document/2015/07/01/un-secretary-ge...
- sjg007 8y ago
  Pen and paper.. best defense.
stordoff 8y ago
FWIW, GCHQ's powers are explicitly exercisable in the "interests of the economic well-being of the United Kingdom". Given the close cooperation between the UK and the US, I would not be surprised if the information is also forwarded to the US. http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1994/13/section/3 http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1994/13/section/3
pritambaral 8y ago
The US government has overthrown democratically elected governments in other countries to install a government more friendly to specific US corporations. The US government has jailed the only known telecom CEO to resist warrant-less spying. The US government has arguably had a major hand in building Stuxnet, which used two zero-day vulns in MS Windows and two stolen Windows driver signing certificates.
Tsubasachan 8y ago
Unfortunately the CIA archives are not open to the public. I don't even know what the big deal is. Countries don't get prosperous by singing kumbaya and group hug sessions. Mine certainly didn't. Whatever it takes as long as you get away with it.

craftyguy 8y ago

I'm less concerned with corporate 'secrets' and more concerned with citizen privacy rights.

kibwen 8y ago
Foreign governments are not concerned with spying on you for the sake of tailoring ads to you. They are concerned with furthering state objectives, which may include proxying traffic through your computer for the purpose of concealing origin, infiltrating public and private infrastructure for the purpose of sabotage, exfiltrating corporate and state secrets, etc.

ivarv 8y ago

The European Union's investigation into the ECHELON program found otherwise. A high level overview is at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON#Concerns https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON#Concerns The actual EU report is available at: http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/getDoc.do?pubRef=-//EP//NONSGML+REPORT+A5-2001-0264+0+DOC+PDF+V0//EN&language=EN http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/getDoc.do?pubRef=-//EP//...

adventured 8y ago
Is there something actually proven and more comprehensive, than speculation from two decades ago? Nearly all of the concerns listed in your Echelon link, are political in nature (eg about Princess Diana, or the five eyes with Canada spying on two British ministers for Britain in 1983), not examples of industrial IP theft. Baseless claims won't cut it. The US has had by far the world's largest economy for the last two decades. There should be dozens of legally proven - court cases - examples of intellectual property theft far worse and larger than anything China has done, given the scale difference of the economies over that time and the supposed capacity to hoover up global communications and put it to use in industrial espionage. Saying that well: here's one example, or here's two examples across 30 years, is not good enough to indict the world's largest and most technologically advanced economy for being rampant industrial thieves. To show a comprehensive pattern of deep industrial espionage, and to show that it isn't more along the lines of routine espionage that occurs between any two great economic powers, requires a lot more proof.
- dnomad 8y ago
  Such furious goal shifting. Demand evidence and then assert the evidence doesn't show rampant thievery. It's absolutely shameless.
- icebraining 8y ago
  There should be dozens of legally proven - court cases - examples of intellectual property theft far worse and larger than anything China has done, given the scale difference of the economies over that time and the supposed capacity to hoover up global communications and put it to use in industrial espionage. How many legally proven court cases against industrial espionage carried by the Chinese State are there?
nyolfen 8y ago
the only thing approaching 'stealing corporate secrets' in this is detecting bribery by european corporations trying to win contracts

ac29 8y ago

"The government does not deny it routinely spies to advance American economic advantage" https://theintercept.com/2014/09/05/us-governments-plans-use-economic-espionage-benefit-american-corporations/ https://theintercept.com/2014/09/05/us-governments-plans-use...

amoshi 8y ago

In an interview with Germany's ARD TV channel, the former NSA contractor said the agency would spy on big German companies that competed with US firms. [0] President Barack Obama got a list of talking points that United Nations Secretary General Ban Ki-moon hoped to hit on during a one-on-one meeting, courtesy of the NSA's X-Keyscore program. - not economic but it's hard to imagine this tactic wouldn't apply to economy related meetings [1,2] [0] https://www.bbc.com/news/25907502 https://www.bbc.com/news/25907502 [1] https://www.cnet.com/news/nsas-spying-on-united-nations-and-others-detailed-in-newly-published-documents/ https://www.cnet.com/news/nsas-spying-on-united-nations-and-... [2] https://theintercept.com/document/2015/07/01/un-secretary-general-xks/ https://theintercept.com/document/2015/07/01/un-secretary-ge...

sjg007 8y ago
Pen and paper.. best defense.

stordoff 8y ago

FWIW, GCHQ's powers are explicitly exercisable in the "interests of the economic well-being of the United Kingdom". Given the close cooperation between the UK and the US, I would not be surprised if the information is also forwarded to the US. http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1994/13/section/3 http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1994/13/section/3

pritambaral 8y ago

The US government has overthrown democratically elected governments in other countries to install a government more friendly to specific US corporations. The US government has jailed the only known telecom CEO to resist warrant-less spying. The US government has arguably had a major hand in building Stuxnet, which used two zero-day vulns in MS Windows and two stolen Windows driver signing certificates.

Tsubasachan 8y ago

Unfortunately the CIA archives are not open to the public. I don't even know what the big deal is. Countries don't get prosperous by singing kumbaya and group hug sessions. Mine certainly didn't. Whatever it takes as long as you get away with it.