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As a Belgian I find this hilarious. This might be the most Belgian thing ever. By the way they are investigating whether this was an accident or on purpose. Th

As a Belgian I find this hilarious. This might be the most Belgian thing ever. By the way they are investigating whether this was an accident or on purpose. The chances of this being an accident are quite small.

mklarmann 8y ago
You suspect some insurance fraud?
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- wjnc 8y ago
  Afaik governments usually don't insure such mishaps. They have pretty much unlimited funds in comparison with insurers. Subcontractors couldn't insure themselves for these kinds of liabilities. No insurer would go that high in liability. Insuring military apparatus itself, well kind of beats the point. Insuring machines of mass destruction against destruction... On the outliers of 'crazy' insurance that I know are things like (private) sattelites and of course the global nuclear pool.
- AlexanderDhoore 8y ago
  As rutgerv said, there is some controversy about what the future of Belgian air force looks like. Do we maintain current planes? Do we buy new ones? If yes, which ones? Does Belgium even need these weapons? Very difficult political questions. I'm not saying this has anything to do with it. But at least that's the context.
  - Tharkun 8y ago
    These are not difficult political questions. The US through NATO are forcing Belgium to buy F35s, and that'll be that. Out of all the jets allegedly in the running, only F35s can be used to drop US nukes. The very same US nukes which have been sitting around in Belgium for decades. The worst best kept secret in the country. No politician is willing/allowed to go on record about this, so they all pretend other jets are beinv considered.
    - jnurmine 8y ago
      It sure is silly to buy an expensive military plane if one cannot produce all parts including the engines domestically... how is hauling spares from across the Atlantic going to work in a hot situation?
      - Tharkun 8y ago
        Not many countries are capable of building their own fighter jets. Many use hand-me-downs from the US or Russia. Some more 'favoured' partners can buy them outright, but terms & conditions apply... There are rumours about US intervention/approval being required when loading the F35 computer with mission details..
        jnurmine 8y ago
        But in Europe there are several fighter programs. These include JAS 39 (from SAAB in Sweden), Eurofighter Typhoon (from BAE, Airbus and Leonardo; Great Britain, Germany, Spain, Italy), Raphael (from Dassault in France). They are not strictly 100% European manufacture, I suppose, but could very well be. There being several domestic European options, obtaining hardware from USA seems counter-productive. The F35 are very expensive, their quality seems supect, they are pushed through not on their technical merits but through political pressure (e.g. Norway), there are strings attached. All this is somewhat alarming. Also, any political guarantees attached to the purchase of the F35 are suspect, as this weeks promises may change next week - we all know the new administration is rather dynamic, in good and bad. Could one buy a few for political reasons? Maybe, but maybe one or two would not be enough and with a larger block the cost becomes an issue.
        elabajaba 8y ago
        The F-35 is vastly superior compared to any of the planes you listed (due to much better sensors, stealth (way lower radar cross section, meaning radars will only detect it once it is much closer vs a non stealth fighter), radar, sensor fusion, datalink with other aircraft, payload(due to having massive internal fuel tanks and much better sensors, while 4th gen fighters need to carry external fuel tanks and a targeting pod to complete air to ground missions)) as well as being cheaper than all but the Gripen (with the Gripen currently being the least capable).
girvo 8y ago
What would the possible motive be for doing this on purpose, do you think? Also thanks for the best beer ever
- rutgerv 8y ago
  Could always be a personal conflict with other technicians/personnel, of course - or a curious form of sabotage. However, on the political front, renewing the F16s in Belgium has been a point of some controversy. The other EU countries (and the US, through the NATO) expect us to stay up to date with military hardware, but Belgian politicians are hesitant to actually spend the money, as it puts the budgets under heavy pressure (and because - presumably - large parts of the public will claim that we did not actually need them, so that we spent billions 'for nothing', billions we could have spent on 'more useful' items). The military is not too happy with this hesitation, so if some speculation is allowed: this situation might move some in the military to take (potentially strange kinds of) action.
  - jules 8y ago
    Sabotage is possible. Several people in EU militaries have joined ISIS.
    - EngineerBetter 8y ago
      Source?
      - the-dude 8y ago
        https://nltimes.nl/2017/04/03/dutch-sergeant-suspected-joining-isis-placed-national-terrorist-list https://nltimes.nl/2017/04/03/dutch-sergeant-suspected-joini...
      - jules 8y ago
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israfil_Yilmaz https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israfil_Yilmaz https://www.bndestem.nl/oosterhout/naar-is-overgelopen-sergeant-van-vliegbasis-gilze-rijen-staat-op-nationale-terrorismelijst~a617b120/ https://www.bndestem.nl/oosterhout/naar-is-overgelopen-serge...
ElBarto 8y ago
I find it sad that European airforces buy so many US planes.
- egeozcan 8y ago
  It is much more economical that US keeps doing what it does better.
- claydavisss 8y ago
  any worse than the fact the many host the USAF at permanent bases? the UK, Italy, Germany...all have permanent military bases for the USA...they're practically garrisoned
- _delirium 8y ago
  US-designed, but partly Belgian-manufactured. These things are always political/economic horsetrading, and as part of the deal, Belgium got one of the F-16 production lines placed in Charleroi: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Dynamics_F-16_Fighting_Falcon#Into_production https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Dynamics_F-16_Fighting...
  - ElBarto 8y ago
    Well, when the news is all about security and Chinese hacks and untrustworthy hardware I find it strange to rely 100% on foreign hardware for one's airforce. Europe isn't an American colony. If anything it should be the other way round.
    - refurb 8y ago
      Considering how little the EU spends on the military compared to the US, it shouldn’t be surprising at all.
      - ElBarto 8y ago
        That's a strawman to the point...
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
donkeyd 8y ago
As a Dutchie, I really hope it's an accident, because otherwise we can't make Belgian jokes about this.
- mitchty 8y ago
  As an American, can you please explain the joke here? I'm clueless as to what jokes there are against the Belgians.
  - andruby 8y ago
    Think about all the jokes you make against Canadians. Belgians and the Dutch have a similar “brotherly friendship”. We’ll make fun of each others customs but are pretty good friends. Eg. The Dutch have “ATM machines for fried food”.
    - mitchty 8y ago
      Gotcha, danke schön!
    - donkeyd 8y ago
      And to give an example from the other side: "Do you know why they don't cover lunatic asylums in Belgium?" "It would be impossible to cover the whole country."

mklarmann 8y ago

You suspect some insurance fraud?

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
wjnc 8y ago
Afaik governments usually don't insure such mishaps. They have pretty much unlimited funds in comparison with insurers. Subcontractors couldn't insure themselves for these kinds of liabilities. No insurer would go that high in liability. Insuring military apparatus itself, well kind of beats the point. Insuring machines of mass destruction against destruction... On the outliers of 'crazy' insurance that I know are things like (private) sattelites and of course the global nuclear pool.
AlexanderDhoore 8y ago
As rutgerv said, there is some controversy about what the future of Belgian air force looks like. Do we maintain current planes? Do we buy new ones? If yes, which ones? Does Belgium even need these weapons? Very difficult political questions. I'm not saying this has anything to do with it. But at least that's the context.
- Tharkun 8y ago
  These are not difficult political questions. The US through NATO are forcing Belgium to buy F35s, and that'll be that. Out of all the jets allegedly in the running, only F35s can be used to drop US nukes. The very same US nukes which have been sitting around in Belgium for decades. The worst best kept secret in the country. No politician is willing/allowed to go on record about this, so they all pretend other jets are beinv considered.
  - jnurmine 8y ago
    It sure is silly to buy an expensive military plane if one cannot produce all parts including the engines domestically... how is hauling spares from across the Atlantic going to work in a hot situation?
    - Tharkun 8y ago
      Not many countries are capable of building their own fighter jets. Many use hand-me-downs from the US or Russia. Some more 'favoured' partners can buy them outright, but terms & conditions apply... There are rumours about US intervention/approval being required when loading the F35 computer with mission details..
      - jnurmine 8y ago
        But in Europe there are several fighter programs. These include JAS 39 (from SAAB in Sweden), Eurofighter Typhoon (from BAE, Airbus and Leonardo; Great Britain, Germany, Spain, Italy), Raphael (from Dassault in France). They are not strictly 100% European manufacture, I suppose, but could very well be. There being several domestic European options, obtaining hardware from USA seems counter-productive. The F35 are very expensive, their quality seems supect, they are pushed through not on their technical merits but through political pressure (e.g. Norway), there are strings attached. All this is somewhat alarming. Also, any political guarantees attached to the purchase of the F35 are suspect, as this weeks promises may change next week - we all know the new administration is rather dynamic, in good and bad. Could one buy a few for political reasons? Maybe, but maybe one or two would not be enough and with a larger block the cost becomes an issue.
        elabajaba 8y ago
        The F-35 is vastly superior compared to any of the planes you listed (due to much better sensors, stealth (way lower radar cross section, meaning radars will only detect it once it is much closer vs a non stealth fighter), radar, sensor fusion, datalink with other aircraft, payload(due to having massive internal fuel tanks and much better sensors, while 4th gen fighters need to carry external fuel tanks and a targeting pod to complete air to ground missions)) as well as being cheaper than all but the Gripen (with the Gripen currently being the least capable).

girvo 8y ago

What would the possible motive be for doing this on purpose, do you think? Also thanks for the best beer ever

rutgerv 8y ago
Could always be a personal conflict with other technicians/personnel, of course - or a curious form of sabotage. However, on the political front, renewing the F16s in Belgium has been a point of some controversy. The other EU countries (and the US, through the NATO) expect us to stay up to date with military hardware, but Belgian politicians are hesitant to actually spend the money, as it puts the budgets under heavy pressure (and because - presumably - large parts of the public will claim that we did not actually need them, so that we spent billions 'for nothing', billions we could have spent on 'more useful' items). The military is not too happy with this hesitation, so if some speculation is allowed: this situation might move some in the military to take (potentially strange kinds of) action.
- jules 8y ago
  Sabotage is possible. Several people in EU militaries have joined ISIS.
  - EngineerBetter 8y ago
    Source?
    - the-dude 8y ago
      https://nltimes.nl/2017/04/03/dutch-sergeant-suspected-joining-isis-placed-national-terrorist-list https://nltimes.nl/2017/04/03/dutch-sergeant-suspected-joini...
    - jules 8y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israfil_Yilmaz https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israfil_Yilmaz https://www.bndestem.nl/oosterhout/naar-is-overgelopen-sergeant-van-vliegbasis-gilze-rijen-staat-op-nationale-terrorismelijst~a617b120/ https://www.bndestem.nl/oosterhout/naar-is-overgelopen-serge...

ElBarto 8y ago

I find it sad that European airforces buy so many US planes.

egeozcan 8y ago
It is much more economical that US keeps doing what it does better.
claydavisss 8y ago
any worse than the fact the many host the USAF at permanent bases? the UK, Italy, Germany...all have permanent military bases for the USA...they're practically garrisoned
_delirium 8y ago
US-designed, but partly Belgian-manufactured. These things are always political/economic horsetrading, and as part of the deal, Belgium got one of the F-16 production lines placed in Charleroi: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Dynamics_F-16_Fighting_Falcon#Into_production https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Dynamics_F-16_Fighting...
- ElBarto 8y ago
  Well, when the news is all about security and Chinese hacks and untrustworthy hardware I find it strange to rely 100% on foreign hardware for one's airforce. Europe isn't an American colony. If anything it should be the other way round.
  - refurb 8y ago
    Considering how little the EU spends on the military compared to the US, it shouldn’t be surprising at all.
    - ElBarto 8y ago
      That's a strawman to the point...

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

donkeyd 8y ago

As a Dutchie, I really hope it's an accident, because otherwise we can't make Belgian jokes about this.

mitchty 8y ago
As an American, can you please explain the joke here? I'm clueless as to what jokes there are against the Belgians.
- andruby 8y ago
  Think about all the jokes you make against Canadians. Belgians and the Dutch have a similar “brotherly friendship”. We’ll make fun of each others customs but are pretty good friends. Eg. The Dutch have “ATM machines for fried food”.
  - mitchty 8y ago
    Gotcha, danke schön!
  - donkeyd 8y ago
    And to give an example from the other side: "Do you know why they don't cover lunatic asylums in Belgium?" "It would be impossible to cover the whole country."