6 ms·
Panspermia
- ErikAugust 8y agoI remember they used a “Panspermia” animation for Pantera’s cover of “Planet Caravan” back in 1994. https://youtu.be/kWChhdIgT6Q https://youtu.be/kWChhdIgT6Q
- roenxi 8y agoI don't see it mentioned on wikipedia, but one tin-pot theory I heard once and quite liked was: * The universe at the moment is on average large, cold and quite hostile to life. * At some point in the past all the energy in the universe was concentrated roughly at one point * So, in between, the universe was a soup of energy that would have been, on average, warm, comfortable and conducive to life. It dovetails with this because it is a plausible "why would life have evolved somewhere else but not here" counterargument. I wouldn't buy it though, it seems likely to me that earth's life is a local phenomenon.
- paxys 8y agoFrom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronology_of_the_universe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronology_of_the_universe: > Between about 10 and 17 million years the universe's average temperature was suitable for liquid water (273 – 373K) and there has been speculation whether rocky planets or indeed life could have arisen briefly, since statistically a tiny part of the universe could have had different conditions from the rest, and gained warmth from the universe as a whole.
- quickthrower2 8y agoBut temperature alone isn't sufficient for life as we know it. Here on Earth we enjoy an atmosphere providing us with oxygen, a large planet protecting us from most meteor impacts, and a magnetic shield against radiation.
- Thiez 8y agoLife didn't start out breathing oxygen, oxygen was actually a waste product and the introduction of oxygen into the atmosphere was a disaster for a lot of the life existing at that time... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Oxygenation_Event https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Oxygenation_Event
- darkerside 8y agoWhat do you think the probability of each of those factors is? Even if they're each 1 in 100, there leaves an enormous likelihood of those conditions existing many times over in the vastness if the universe.
- evanb 8y agoThis has received some serious consideration in Loeb's "The Habitable Epoch of the Early Universe" https://arxiv.org/abs/1312.0613 https://arxiv.org/abs/1312.0613
- bryanthompson 8y agoProxima and Ultima by Stephen Baxter hit along this theme and are a pretty good read.
- OnlyRepliesToBS 8y agoit just moves the question up one on the stack the original question remains
- EGreg 8y agoThis just pushes the problem of abiogenesis one step back.
- memebox3v 8y agoI think some believers see a steady state universe. Life then becomes a boltzman brain. But I think panspermia is likely a thing and I think life naturally arises in open dissipative systems. Get a rock, water, and a heat source and wait a few million years...
- otabdeveloper2 8y ago> Get a rock, water, and a heat source and wait a few million years... And you get a warm, wet rock. Statistics, probability theory and physics don't work like that. You can't arrive at the conclusion by stating a premise and wishful thinking.
- memebox3v 8y agoWhy does everyone claim to know things they don't know? The more I know the more stupid popular opinion becomes. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilya_Prigogine https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilya_Prigogine
- darkerside 8y agoI think what's missing from your closed system is some kind of variation to induce change. Earth might not have enjoyed life without the rotation and revolution of the Earth generating conductive (and other) currents in the air and water. Side note, I think you could make stronger points by not distracting with that kind of off-putting sarcasm.
- EGreg 8y agoJeremy England got popular a few years ago for claiming that life is inevitable on nearly every planet. Hmm https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/a-new-physics-theory-of-life/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/a-new-physics-the... Funny how we go from “we are the only ones here” to “lifs is everywhere” and Drake’s equation is a giant fudge: https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/384:_The_Drake_Equation https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/384:_The_Drake_Eq... So atheists are sure that creationism is silly but then postulate Multiverse Theory + Anthropic Principle and Life is Inevitable? Let’s ALL be humble and say that, at this point, we have absolutely no idea how life began, and these are all speculative and unproven theories.
- blazespin 8y agoI, for one, have been busily working in my backyard launching nano-rockets filled with water bears that I've manipulated via CRISPR to contain encoded messages of funny dad jokes.
- bencollier49 8y agoBut then, disaster strikes! It transpires that when encoded into quaternary, and thence to base pairs, the joke "What lies at the bottom of the sea, shivering? A nervous wreck!" encodes a viral sequence for a novel but entirely deadly pneumatic disease. When one of the rockets misfires and detonates in a Bernard Matthews turkey farm, all human life on this planet is quickly extinguished. 100 million years later, a crashed alien spacecraft is discovered by the inhabitants of Gliese 15s, triggering a cultural revolution involving terrible puns and mildly amusing logical inconsistencies.
- Tossrock 8y agoAaron Diaz may have beaten you to that particular punch: http://dresdencodak.com/2009/07/12/fabulous-prizes/ http://dresdencodak.com/2009/07/12/fabulous-prizes/
- locusofself 8y agoCheck out Nick Lane's videos on his theory of life origins on earth. Fascinating stuff.
- novaRom 8y agoIs it possible that self replication was ignited at the time of heavy bombardment? It's really strange how origin of Life on Earth is correlated with this time. One possibility might be that our planet was covered with ice at this time while constant bombardment should produce a lot of phase shifts and randomness, contributing to significant recombinations of available molecules in water. It's a kind of top-down approach.
- epse 8y agoOP, did you just watch "How the universe works"?
- dyukqu 8y ago:-) Nope, I was reading an article: The Milky Way Could Be Spreading Life From Star to Star -> https://www.universetoday.com/140223/the-milky-way-could-be-spreading-life-from-star-to-star/ https://www.universetoday.com/140223/the-milky-way-could-be-...
- ohazi 8y agoMy wikipedia-chain for the past hour and a half: https://hedwig.orenhazi.com/misc/nerdsniped.jpg https://hedwig.orenhazi.com/misc/nerdsniped.jpg I hope you're happy.
- snarfy 8y agoI see that list and all I see are purple links. It's still early :) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geon_%28physics%29 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geon_%28physics%29 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-electron_universe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-electron_universe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_Model https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_Model https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spin_%28physics%29 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spin_%28physics%29
- toolslive 8y agoThe idea explained in a computer animated video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWChhdIgT6Q&gl=BE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWChhdIgT6Q&gl=BE
- lanna 8y agoThe source used in the music video: https://archive.org/details/sims_panspermia_1990 https://archive.org/details/sims_panspermia_1990
- gattr 8y agoIt's interesting to note that, regardless of actual origin of life, a significant exchange might have been occurring (or is still occurring) between Solar System bodies (judging by how we found a number of Martian meteorites on Earth). So if we find life elsewhere in the Solar System, it might be quite compatible. The idea is mentioned in Kim Stanley Robinson's "2312", where simple organisms exist in Enceladus's ocean, and some people inject them for fun (with neutral or mildly beneficial effects).
- utopcell 8y agoA theory that can never be tested is as much a religion as any.
- utopcell 8y ago..although there's nothing wrong with a panspermia religion.
- Shorel 8y agoI don't see anything in the idea of Panspermia that dictates how should I conduct my life and if I can eat pork or not.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- erikpukinskis 8y agoI don’t get it... how is this a religion? Doesn’t a religion set out rules for living and have weekly services and stuff? Also isn’t a theory a hypothesis that has already been tested and supported with evidence?
- hossbeast 8y agoReligion is choosing to believe that something is true without evidence.
- erikpukinskis 8y agoI don’t think that’s right. Here are some definitions from Google: the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods. a particular system of faith and worship. a pursuit or interest to which someone ascribes supreme importance.
- lelf 8y agoThere’s an interesting paper mentioned: The DNA of Bacteria of the World Ocean and the Earth in Cosmic Dust at the International Space Station https://www.hindawi.com/journals/tswj/2018/7360147/ https://www.hindawi.com/journals/tswj/2018/7360147/
- jajag 8y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Directed_panspermia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Directed_panspermia
- gdubs 8y agoOk, this is a bit of a tangent but this is a smart crowd and I’ve been wondering something. Was reading about the Silurian hypothesis from NASA researchers, which talks about how hard it could be to detect a previous technological society in the geological record. (Harder than I’d assumed.) [1] Given that — and climate change being top-of-mind — I was thinking about Venus and wondering: how certain/uncertain are scientists that Venus’s greenhouse effect wasn’t caused by a technologically advanced society, a very long time ago? From my understanding, it’s so hot there that anything we’ve sent has burned up rather quickly. If it’s indeed very difficult to detect a previous civilization in the geological record on earth, what does that say about Venus? 1: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silurian_hypothesis https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silurian_hypothesis
- yjftsjthsd-h 8y agoThat feels nonfalsifiable? Unless there's some persistent markers (oddities in the chemistry of the atmosphere, perhaps) there wouldn't be any way to know.
- 3pt14159 8y agoWe know very little about Venus. Unlike most people that think that Mars is a future human world, I think that either spacecraft or Venus will be our secondary homes in this solar system. All it takes is to get 40 kms off the ground in Venus and a human could walk outside. All you would need is oxygen, which is already trivially supplied with today's technology. If we bio-engineered some plants to create pockets of lighter gas they could float in the air. Energy generation would be easy because of the thermal differential to the surface. The biggest problem for being outside longterm (years) is the lack of a ionosphere of similar strength to Earth, but I think that could be tackled. The psychological impact of long days could also be partially mitigated by having the bioengineered pods use sails or engines to follow dusk and go in and out of it, simulating an earth day. But similar gravity and tons of potential compared to shitty Mars.
- dmytrish 8y ago> If we bio-engineered some plants to create pockets of lighter gas they could float in the air. Those plants would also need to be able live in an atmosphere that contains seven times more sulfuric acid than water vapors. It's not easy to sustain protein life outside of Earth. Still a nicer place than Mars, I agree.
- pfdietz 8y agoOne argument that life is common is that life appeared very early on Earth, and so by inference Origin of Life is likely to be an easy process. But there's another possibility: perhaps panspermia is easy in the dense star cluster the Solar System formed in, which packed 1000 or more stars into a cubic parsec. In that case, if life originated early, it could then spread to all the other star systems in that cluster. This would amplify the statistical weight of "early" OoL. Most planets on which life gains a foothold would be those in which OoL happened to occur in this birth nursery, and then spread. This concept has interesting implications for SETI and science fiction. Life might be extraordinarily rare or absent elsewhere in the universe, but there may still be thousands of other systems in our galaxy that were seeded along with ours. They'd be spread out now around a ~180 degree arc around the center of the galaxy.
- pontifier 8y agoI had a conversation with someone about cryonics a few years ago, and they brought up an ineresting problem with the viability of cell over long periods of time. DNA repair is an active process, and if frozen in Liquid Nitrogen, all molecular activity stops, yet radiation damage can still occur. It seems like on a long interstellar voyage, gamma rays and other cosmic rays would turn an organisms DNA into soup.