3 ms·

"natural" like half of women dead in childbirth natural?

by harry8 8y ago

Synaesthesia 8y ago
When there are problems, you operate. Otherwise it’s preferable for natural birth for mother and baby, for reasons mentioned above.
- KaiserPro 8y ago
  no. There are a whole host of reasons for having a c-section. The risk of having a massive tear (ie vag to arse(4c tear), or literally tearing a new arsehole) is 1 in 4. This has long term life altering consequences. An "elective" c-section is not the same as "booking in". The less "identity politics" that are wrapped up in this, the better.
  - iforgotpassword 8y ago
    No. > The risk of having a massive tear (ie vag to arse(4c tear), or literally tearing a new arsehole) is 1 in 4. Yes and it usually heals very well. The tissue there is made to deal with that. My sister had that happen 5 years ago, it even continued into her gut for a few cm. So that was a very bad case, but it still healed perfectly, although it took about 3 month.
    - KaiserPro 8y ago
      ... 3 months. Unless she had corrective surgery then she's almost certainly got some level of incontinence. There will(or should) have been physiotherapy to get some semblance control back. Look, there is nothing wrong with a c-section or a vaginal delivery. To make women feel that they are somehow inferior for having one is totally unacceptable. Something like 10-20% of births endup in caesarian, otherwise there is a massive chance of a bad outcome for both child and mother. Source: wife who is a paediatrician and attends lots of births where the child is in distress.
grecy 8y ago
Such a great myth that our culture perpetuates. You genuinely think half of women are dying in Childbirth in undeveloped countries right now? I'm in Africa typing this, and I can honestly say you have no idea. FWIW, my sister-in-law had her baby at home, zero medical anything, just a widwife keeping an eye on things.
- harry8 8y ago
  Do you really think underdeveloped is the same as cave-people? That Africans have no education and expertise to do their absolute best looking after mothers and babies? I have to disagree strongly there... As ever more money would probably lead to better outcomes still. Poor Africa is unbelievably wealth compared to pre-history. https://www.iol.co.za/lifestyle/health/africa-200-000-women-die-from-natural-childbirth-8736527 https://www.iol.co.za/lifestyle/health/africa-200-000-women-... Is the rate of non-intervention childbirth in pre-history 50% or 1%? This is not really even an interesting question. With absolute certainty you can say it was more than 1%. In modern times we've made that massively lower. /Even/ in very poor parts of Africa interventions of many different kinds happen to get that natural rate down. It's not "natural" to take antibiotics for infection either. Get natural out of this discussion. Childbirth is dangerous, we have made huge progress as a species so that it really shouldn't be anymore. That progress is not "natural" what it is, is actually morally good. Prosletysation in evidence based medicine should require peer-reviewed studies with data available cited as evidence. Where is that when all these people say "natural" is better? Evidence would convince me. Really.
dang 8y ago
"Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize." Doing otherwise leads to tedious flamewars. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
harry8 8y ago
This was me pointing out the word "natural" is loaded BS. Whatever one's view is on whether a baby should be delivered by C-Section or vaginally (which should depend on the circumstances, obvbiously) "natural" as a description is really silly. We aren't cave-people. We are incredibly thankful for it. We don't consider it a good thing to watch our children die and will intervene in all kinds of ways animals can't to avoid it. Anyone touting "natural" for anything, especially childbirth, should be treated with extreme caution. Look how it's done: If you're a fit, 19 year old mother with a healthy, correctly oriented fetus vaginal birth may be preferable to c-section. Take "natural" the hell away from all of it. It's a sign of thinking being replaced by emotion which probably isn't a good idea if you think evidence based medicine is a good idea.

"natural" like half of women dead in childbirth natural?

by harry8 8y ago

"natural" like half of women dead in childbirth natural?

When there are problems, you operate. Otherwise it’s preferable for natural birth for mother and baby, for reasons mentioned above.

KaiserPro 8y ago
no. There are a whole host of reasons for having a c-section. The risk of having a massive tear (ie vag to arse(4c tear), or literally tearing a new arsehole) is 1 in 4. This has long term life altering consequences. An "elective" c-section is not the same as "booking in". The less "identity politics" that are wrapped up in this, the better.
- iforgotpassword 8y ago
  No. > The risk of having a massive tear (ie vag to arse(4c tear), or literally tearing a new arsehole) is 1 in 4. Yes and it usually heals very well. The tissue there is made to deal with that. My sister had that happen 5 years ago, it even continued into her gut for a few cm. So that was a very bad case, but it still healed perfectly, although it took about 3 month.
  - KaiserPro 8y ago
    ... 3 months. Unless she had corrective surgery then she's almost certainly got some level of incontinence. There will(or should) have been physiotherapy to get some semblance control back. Look, there is nothing wrong with a c-section or a vaginal delivery. To make women feel that they are somehow inferior for having one is totally unacceptable. Something like 10-20% of births endup in caesarian, otherwise there is a massive chance of a bad outcome for both child and mother. Source: wife who is a paediatrician and attends lots of births where the child is in distress.

grecy 8y ago

Such a great myth that our culture perpetuates. You genuinely think half of women are dying in Childbirth in undeveloped countries right now? I'm in Africa typing this, and I can honestly say you have no idea. FWIW, my sister-in-law had her baby at home, zero medical anything, just a widwife keeping an eye on things.

harry8 8y ago
Do you really think underdeveloped is the same as cave-people? That Africans have no education and expertise to do their absolute best looking after mothers and babies? I have to disagree strongly there... As ever more money would probably lead to better outcomes still. Poor Africa is unbelievably wealth compared to pre-history. https://www.iol.co.za/lifestyle/health/africa-200-000-women-die-from-natural-childbirth-8736527 https://www.iol.co.za/lifestyle/health/africa-200-000-women-... Is the rate of non-intervention childbirth in pre-history 50% or 1%? This is not really even an interesting question. With absolute certainty you can say it was more than 1%. In modern times we've made that massively lower. /Even/ in very poor parts of Africa interventions of many different kinds happen to get that natural rate down. It's not "natural" to take antibiotics for infection either. Get natural out of this discussion. Childbirth is dangerous, we have made huge progress as a species so that it really shouldn't be anymore. That progress is not "natural" what it is, is actually morally good. Prosletysation in evidence based medicine should require peer-reviewed studies with data available cited as evidence. Where is that when all these people say "natural" is better? Evidence would convince me. Really.

dang 8y ago

"Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize." Doing otherwise leads to tedious flamewars. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

harry8 8y ago

This was me pointing out the word "natural" is loaded BS. Whatever one's view is on whether a baby should be delivered by C-Section or vaginally (which should depend on the circumstances, obvbiously) "natural" as a description is really silly. We aren't cave-people. We are incredibly thankful for it. We don't consider it a good thing to watch our children die and will intervene in all kinds of ways animals can't to avoid it. Anyone touting "natural" for anything, especially childbirth, should be treated with extreme caution. Look how it's done: If you're a fit, 19 year old mother with a healthy, correctly oriented fetus vaginal birth may be preferable to c-section. Take "natural" the hell away from all of it. It's a sign of thinking being replaced by emotion which probably isn't a good idea if you think evidence based medicine is a good idea.