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But isn't the point that you require treatment alongside the drug? And yes, supporting addiction over decades is hugely damaging. Also, please be more empathet

But isn't the point that you require treatment alongside the drug? And yes, supporting addiction over decades is hugely damaging. Also, please be more empathetic towards your fellow human. Giving up on someone doesn't help.

xkcd-sucks 8y ago
"Predisposed to addiction" is how we say it in the industry, and it really means "has a shitty life." The diagnostic criteria for addiction are whether the person can't stop doing the thing despite wanting to, and whether doing the thing causes problems. If they're stable-- whether on or off medication of any kind including opiates-- then the addiction is considered successfully managed. Also, mental illnesses are never cured. They're managed, and the best possible outcome is stability over a lifetime. Typically stressors induce un-managed relapse, so staying on dope and keeping tolerance stable really is the best outcome for people living in adverse circumstances.
- stephengillie 8y ago
  So, instead of helping these people with their "predisposition", these countries are helping with their habit. How is this admirable?
  - TylerE 8y ago
    Because it's better for them to have legal access to a controlled, safe supply than to be robbing houses for money to score who-knows-what off the street? Making drugs illegal has never stopped anyone from doing drugs, it just adds additional problems to their life (hey, they have a felony record now, no one will hire them).
  - toasterlovin 8y ago
    It’s the worst solution, except for all the rest.
  - retsibsi 8y ago
    Because you can't just wave a magic wand and cure all of someone's problems, and because being a heroin addict with a reliable, legal, relatively safe supply is probably a lot less bad than being a heroin addict without that. And why are you assuming that these people are not getting any other help? The two aren't mutually exclusive. In fact, not having to deal with all of the risks and stresses of scoring illicit drugs probably makes it significantly easier to make improvements in other areas of your life (which, as well as being a good thing in itself, might in turn make it easier for you to kick the addiction). Absent convincing evidence to the contrary, it's entirely plausible that this approach is doing a good job of getting people off heroin, as well as improving the lives of those who stay on it. The fact that some people remain addicted doesn't undermine that.
    - stephengillie 8y ago
      > And why are you assuming that these people are not getting any other help? To the contrary, I'm wondering how effective is this help, if it fails to wean someone after 20 years. Or, there must be some constant influx of new users.
      - koverstreet 8y ago
        Is your goal to get people to stop using drugs, no matter what? Because we've seen how well that's worked in the U.S. If they're solving all the other problems in these addict's lives - if they're able to be functioning members of society - isn't that enough? Why would you upset all that progress by making stopping drugs priority #1?
        jowsie 8y ago
        A lot of people are still under the impression that using Heroin daily has extremely damaging physical effects along the lines of a serious meth habit. A lack of education about the issue is what leads to this kind of outrage, ime.
        stephengillie 8y ago
  - imtringued 8y ago
    Street drugs cause loss of life, health problems and financial distress which leads to an increasing population of chronically homeless people, higher medical costs, loss of tax income, theft or becoming drug dealers themselves to pay for drugs, etc. Imagine for one second that you could solve all of these problems at once with medical grade drugs and all you have to do is let drug addicts visit a doctor regularly. How is this not admirable?

xkcd-sucks 8y ago

"Predisposed to addiction" is how we say it in the industry, and it really means "has a shitty life." The diagnostic criteria for addiction are whether the person can't stop doing the thing despite wanting to, and whether doing the thing causes problems. If they're stable-- whether on or off medication of any kind including opiates-- then the addiction is considered successfully managed. Also, mental illnesses are never cured. They're managed, and the best possible outcome is stability over a lifetime. Typically stressors induce un-managed relapse, so staying on dope and keeping tolerance stable really is the best outcome for people living in adverse circumstances.

stephengillie 8y ago
So, instead of helping these people with their "predisposition", these countries are helping with their habit. How is this admirable?
- TylerE 8y ago
  Because it's better for them to have legal access to a controlled, safe supply than to be robbing houses for money to score who-knows-what off the street? Making drugs illegal has never stopped anyone from doing drugs, it just adds additional problems to their life (hey, they have a felony record now, no one will hire them).
- toasterlovin 8y ago
  It’s the worst solution, except for all the rest.
- retsibsi 8y ago
  Because you can't just wave a magic wand and cure all of someone's problems, and because being a heroin addict with a reliable, legal, relatively safe supply is probably a lot less bad than being a heroin addict without that. And why are you assuming that these people are not getting any other help? The two aren't mutually exclusive. In fact, not having to deal with all of the risks and stresses of scoring illicit drugs probably makes it significantly easier to make improvements in other areas of your life (which, as well as being a good thing in itself, might in turn make it easier for you to kick the addiction). Absent convincing evidence to the contrary, it's entirely plausible that this approach is doing a good job of getting people off heroin, as well as improving the lives of those who stay on it. The fact that some people remain addicted doesn't undermine that.
  - stephengillie 8y ago
    > And why are you assuming that these people are not getting any other help? To the contrary, I'm wondering how effective is this help, if it fails to wean someone after 20 years. Or, there must be some constant influx of new users.
    - koverstreet 8y ago
      Is your goal to get people to stop using drugs, no matter what? Because we've seen how well that's worked in the U.S. If they're solving all the other problems in these addict's lives - if they're able to be functioning members of society - isn't that enough? Why would you upset all that progress by making stopping drugs priority #1?
      - jowsie 8y ago
        A lot of people are still under the impression that using Heroin daily has extremely damaging physical effects along the lines of a serious meth habit. A lack of education about the issue is what leads to this kind of outrage, ime.
        stephengillie 8y ago
- imtringued 8y ago
  Street drugs cause loss of life, health problems and financial distress which leads to an increasing population of chronically homeless people, higher medical costs, loss of tax income, theft or becoming drug dealers themselves to pay for drugs, etc. Imagine for one second that you could solve all of these problems at once with medical grade drugs and all you have to do is let drug addicts visit a doctor regularly. How is this not admirable?