5 ms·

20 years is enough to quit anything. Something here doesn't add up. Have there been a lot of new heroin users entering this system over the past 20 years? Or h

20 years is enough to quit anything. Something here doesn't add up. Have there been a lot of new heroin users entering this system over the past 20 years? Or have these governments been supporting the drug addiction of a small handful of people who refuse to kick the habit, despite 20 years of therapy? Also, who fills the prescriptions? Or do the doctors just prescribe whatever the patient can get from a dealer? How does free healthcare the dealer? GP's great article is paywalled.

cm2012 8y ago
It's not necessarily bad to support the drug addictions of a small handful of people for 20 years. Some people just suck at life, due to mental illness. They're going to be addicts regardless. It is insanely cheaper to just give them drugs than to close your eyes and let the other costs of them being unpredictable, homeless and sick add up.
- stephengillie 8y ago
  But isn't the point that you require treatment alongside the drug? And yes, supporting addiction over decades is hugely damaging. Also, please be more empathetic towards your fellow human. Giving up on someone doesn't help.
  - xkcd-sucks 8y ago
    "Predisposed to addiction" is how we say it in the industry, and it really means "has a shitty life." The diagnostic criteria for addiction are whether the person can't stop doing the thing despite wanting to, and whether doing the thing causes problems. If they're stable-- whether on or off medication of any kind including opiates-- then the addiction is considered successfully managed. Also, mental illnesses are never cured. They're managed, and the best possible outcome is stability over a lifetime. Typically stressors induce un-managed relapse, so staying on dope and keeping tolerance stable really is the best outcome for people living in adverse circumstances.
    - stephengillie 8y ago
      So, instead of helping these people with their "predisposition", these countries are helping with their habit. How is this admirable?
      - TylerE 8y ago
        Because it's better for them to have legal access to a controlled, safe supply than to be robbing houses for money to score who-knows-what off the street? Making drugs illegal has never stopped anyone from doing drugs, it just adds additional problems to their life (hey, they have a felony record now, no one will hire them).
      - toasterlovin 8y ago
        It’s the worst solution, except for all the rest.
      - retsibsi 8y ago
        Because you can't just wave a magic wand and cure all of someone's problems, and because being a heroin addict with a reliable, legal, relatively safe supply is probably a lot less bad than being a heroin addict without that. And why are you assuming that these people are not getting any other help? The two aren't mutually exclusive. In fact, not having to deal with all of the risks and stresses of scoring illicit drugs probably makes it significantly easier to make improvements in other areas of your life (which, as well as being a good thing in itself, might in turn make it easier for you to kick the addiction). Absent convincing evidence to the contrary, it's entirely plausible that this approach is doing a good job of getting people off heroin, as well as improving the lives of those who stay on it. The fact that some people remain addicted doesn't undermine that.
        stephengillie 8y ago
        > And why are you assuming that these people are not getting any other help? To the contrary, I'm wondering how effective is this help, if it fails to wean someone after 20 years. Or, there must be some constant influx of new users.
xkcd-sucks 8y ago
Drugs of abuse are incredibly cheap, and doing dope for decades doesn't harm anyone. You can take solace in the knowledge that these recalcitrant addicts will face eternal torment in Hell for refusing to kick the habit
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

cm2012 8y ago

It's not necessarily bad to support the drug addictions of a small handful of people for 20 years. Some people just suck at life, due to mental illness. They're going to be addicts regardless. It is insanely cheaper to just give them drugs than to close your eyes and let the other costs of them being unpredictable, homeless and sick add up.

stephengillie 8y ago
But isn't the point that you require treatment alongside the drug? And yes, supporting addiction over decades is hugely damaging. Also, please be more empathetic towards your fellow human. Giving up on someone doesn't help.
- xkcd-sucks 8y ago
  "Predisposed to addiction" is how we say it in the industry, and it really means "has a shitty life." The diagnostic criteria for addiction are whether the person can't stop doing the thing despite wanting to, and whether doing the thing causes problems. If they're stable-- whether on or off medication of any kind including opiates-- then the addiction is considered successfully managed. Also, mental illnesses are never cured. They're managed, and the best possible outcome is stability over a lifetime. Typically stressors induce un-managed relapse, so staying on dope and keeping tolerance stable really is the best outcome for people living in adverse circumstances.
  - stephengillie 8y ago
    So, instead of helping these people with their "predisposition", these countries are helping with their habit. How is this admirable?
    - TylerE 8y ago
      Because it's better for them to have legal access to a controlled, safe supply than to be robbing houses for money to score who-knows-what off the street? Making drugs illegal has never stopped anyone from doing drugs, it just adds additional problems to their life (hey, they have a felony record now, no one will hire them).
    - toasterlovin 8y ago
      It’s the worst solution, except for all the rest.
    - retsibsi 8y ago
      Because you can't just wave a magic wand and cure all of someone's problems, and because being a heroin addict with a reliable, legal, relatively safe supply is probably a lot less bad than being a heroin addict without that. And why are you assuming that these people are not getting any other help? The two aren't mutually exclusive. In fact, not having to deal with all of the risks and stresses of scoring illicit drugs probably makes it significantly easier to make improvements in other areas of your life (which, as well as being a good thing in itself, might in turn make it easier for you to kick the addiction). Absent convincing evidence to the contrary, it's entirely plausible that this approach is doing a good job of getting people off heroin, as well as improving the lives of those who stay on it. The fact that some people remain addicted doesn't undermine that.
      - stephengillie 8y ago
        > And why are you assuming that these people are not getting any other help? To the contrary, I'm wondering how effective is this help, if it fails to wean someone after 20 years. Or, there must be some constant influx of new users.

xkcd-sucks 8y ago

Drugs of abuse are incredibly cheap, and doing dope for decades doesn't harm anyone. You can take solace in the knowledge that these recalcitrant addicts will face eternal torment in Hell for refusing to kick the habit

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]