18 ms·

After Journalist’s Alleged Murder, Tech Execs Distance Themselves from Saudis

218 points by djrobstep 8y ago

anigbrowl 8y ago
not to worry, civility will get us through this problem
- lamarpye 8y ago
  That is really funny, when are you going on tour? I need to clear my calendar so I don't miss it.
  - praneshp 8y ago
    I don't get the joke, are you hinting at Yanni? I went to his concert a couple of months ago and he was doing a lot advertising for Saudi
    - hayD00D 8y ago
      Sometimes, certain comedians have been known to go on tour. Imagine that. A comedian (any comedian) going on tour. The very idea of it. Incredible. Get it now?
  - AnimalMuppet 8y ago
    I think that was /s, but I'm not sure...
    - lamarpye 8y ago
      Very perceptive.
- mohammedbin 8y ago
  People like you are the problem. Race relations have worsened during Obama time. Antifa was born. And you pretend that it's trumps fault and reference hillary comment. I hate Trump (and it's sad that I have to say this just for myself to be taken seriously) but he isn't the person killing 3 people in Chicago everyday.
- duxup 8y ago
  Sincere question, what does this mean?
  - maxerickson 8y ago
    It's become common in the US to call for civility in politics, because civility is important. Simultaneously, it's likely that a US ally had a journalist murdered and dismembered in order to silence them and send a message to others that are thinking about writing critical things about Saudi Arabia. The implication is that the people calling for civility are living in some kind of fucked up dream land where being nice to bastards is important.
    - duxup 8y ago
      I think I understand what you're saying, but that interpretation seems disconnected too...
      - mercer 8y ago
        I might be wildly off about anigbrowl's comment, but for a while now it's been a bit of a 'meme' in the progressive(?) / left-but-serious-about-it camp that mainstream (US) democrats, and I suppose the bigger 'left' parties in Europe, have a weird kind of obsession with 'civility' and 'protocol' and whatnot while the world is burning, so to speak. his comment reminded me of that.
exabrial 8y ago
We've needed to for awhile, for a lot of reasons; from 911 passports to weapons proliferation.
hendzen 8y ago
$45 billion (soon to be 90) in Saudi money sloshing around in SV via SoftBank. Everyone is complicit.
- i_am_nomad 8y ago
  Seize it and distribute to the 9/11 survivors, first responders, and troops who served subsequently in Afghanistan.
  - bilbo0s 8y ago
    Do that and foreign investment in the US would collapse. Very tangible difference between an asset FREEZE, and an asset SEIZURE. And it's a difference wealth prez guys take deadly seriously.
    - fjsolwmv 8y ago
      Perhaps it's good that blood money isn't used to invest in the US.
forapurpose 8y ago
> some of Neom’s advisory board members, including ... [Sam] Altman, who sat down with the prince in April, declined to comment on their involvement I hope he comments relatively soon (I'm not criticizing him for not commenting in time for this article). His leadership has a large influence on many, including in this forum. Tacit opposition and tacit support are the same thing.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- pinewurst 8y ago
  https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna919331 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna919331 Sam Altman, the president of Y Combinator, a startup incubator that has nurtured Airbnb and other well-known companies, suspended his involvement advising Saudi Arabia on a mega-city project there known as NEOM.
- mercer 8y ago
  I'm with with him taking his time to think on this, but anything less than a proper statement about this situation and explaining his reasons for being on this board would be highly disappointing.
walrus01 8y ago
Saudi Arabia also indefinitely detains womens' rights activists: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/saudi-arabia-death-penalty-ubc-graduate-1.4797113 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/saudi-arabia... https://www.google.com/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q=loujain+al-hathloul&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8 https://www.google.com/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q=lou... They pay lip service to modernization and liberalization (like the legal change allowing women to drive), but in actuality it's one step forward, two steps back. There is extensive documentation on the fact the Saudi Arabia and other states in the region fund fundamentalist, Hanafi / Wahabbist madrassas in Pakistan. Where do all the Pakistani jihadis fighting in Afghanistan come from? It's been known by intelligence agencies for years. https://www.google.com/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q=saudi+arabia+funding+madrassas+pakistan&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8 https://www.google.com/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q=sau...
- Covzire 8y ago
  Tells you who the ruling class is, doesn't it.
- nahalz 8y ago
  There is a certain, big attack on US soil that is also known to be the work of certain people
  - aaronbrethorst 8y ago
    MbS: First of all, this Wahhabism—please define it for us. We’re not familiar with it. We don’t know about it. Goldberg: What do you mean you don’t know about it? MbS: What is Wahhabism? Goldberg: You’re the crown prince of Saudi Arabia. You know what Wahhabism is. MbS: No one can define this Wahhabism. Goldberg: It’s a movement founded by Ibn abd al-Wahhab in the 1700s, very fundamentalist in nature, an austere Salafist-style interpretation— MbS: No one can define Wahhabism. There is no Wahhabism. https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2018/04/mohammed-bin-salman-iran-israel/557036/ https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2018/04/mo...
    - 8y ago
minimaxir 8y ago
> Just got word that Y Combinator's Sam Altman is suspending his involvement with the board of Neom. His statement: "This is well out of my expertise, so I don't plan to comment on the case until the investigation is finished." https://twitter.com/RMac18/status/1050541832126455809 https://twitter.com/RMac18/status/1050541832126455809
- mercer 8y ago
  On the one hand I really try to be mindful of the concerns someone like Altman faces that I don't, but then on the other hand I don't understand how anyone with any conscience, integrity and basic knowledge of history/politics would be able to have anything to do with the Saudi government. Furthermore, if something is 'out of your expertise', why get into this situation in the first place? "ich habe es nicht gewusst" should at least not be valid approach/defense anymore.
40acres 8y ago
It was sad to watch so many "intellectual elites" fawn over MBS' "reforms". Wow women can drive and go to football games. Wow folks can watch Black Panther at the movies. All the while the Saudi government is bombing the hell of out kids in Yemen with bombs that have the US flag painted on em. Hopefully this will be the beginning of a thorough re-evaluation of our relationship with KSA but I highly doubt it.
- firasd 8y ago
  I was also suspicious of MBS' 'anti-corruption' drive last year. There is no doubt that there's corruption among the rich and powerful but a sudden purge seemed more like a power consolidation move https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Saudi_Arabian_purge https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Saudi_Arabian_purge
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - onetimemanytime 8y ago
    That's smart for him to do. If you want absolute power you need to scare the crap out of the competitors(1). Remember, the way he got power is new, and could be there for 50 years. Lots of super rich, but unhappy cousins and uncles. No doubt the Marriot family meeting will happen again and again. (1)...of course after you've made sure no coup d'etat happens in response. He's consolidating power but if recordings come out on how the journo was murdered, this guy will no longer meet Bill Gates or Bezos in his next US trip. He'll be treated like mad African dictators were.
  - FundThrowaway 8y ago
    An anti-corruption drive is nearly always just a power shift. Look at the various ones in China, it's never about corruption and more about one branch of the political elite taking out another.
- walrus01 8y ago
  It is not just the USA. The UK is a major manufacturer and supplier of military equipment to the Saudis, as is Canada. In fact just about every NATO country sells a significant amount of armaments to the Saudi military. Take a look at the wikipedia page for the saudi army and saudi air force and examine what aircraft, vehicles and weapons systems they use. There are ongoing operational maintenance and training contracts worth billions. US "advisors" employed by major defense contractors are in Saudi Arabia right now training the Saudi air force. https://www.google.com/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q=uk+arms+deal+saudi&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8 https://www.google.com/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q=uk+...
yasserd99 8y ago
the problem is most of of US citizens judge Saudi Arabia without knowing what is really going on, adopting an opinion based on what they see on the news - which is in English - I laugh when I see some of the comments, especially from seemingly intellectual people.
- why_only_15 8y ago
  Tell us then, O wise Saudi Arabian, what is really going on?
- jnaina 8y ago
  As someone with relatives who live and work in the KSA as expats, the perception that Americans and the world has about KSA is pretty much on point. It’s a country ruled by a brutal kleptocractic family, which uses a particularly ultra conservative strain of Islam (Wahabisim) to keep themselves and their elite cronies in power.
senderista 8y ago
So the Saudis can be responsible for the worst cholera epidemic in history and the direct killing of thousands of civilians in Yemen, but killing one journalist is suddenly a bridge too far?
- walrus01 8y ago
  The cynical answer is, basically, the Houthis are backed by Iran, who the US is happy to allow a US-equipment-supplied third party military to attack, because, well, "fuck iran", right? Axis of evil, nuclear program and all that. Iran's support for Hezbollah, which is in direct contradiction to the US' ongoing support of Israel, etc.
- King-Aaron 8y ago
  Don't forget financing a handful of domestic airline tickets in 2001 (etc).
- rgbrenner 8y ago
  That's the way the world is. People only seem to sit up and take notice of terrible things on occasion. The answer isn't to be critical of them taking notice now, but to use it to make them aware of the other terrible things the same group is also doing.
  - jiveturkey 8y ago
    they were aware. these are smart people. they don’t live under a rock.
- jahaja 8y ago
  It's a sad testament of how important and well shielded upper middle class sensibilities are. What you describe won't rattle those much, however, a violation of the sanctity of journalists clearly will. It's, imo, a blatantly corrupt set of ethics.
- mc32 8y ago
  Yeah, that's a weird one. Also interesting is that they are being outed by a regime which itself does some of the same things SA does (with regard to dissidents). Maybe it's because the US has taken some of the aid from Turkey and they want the same to happen to SA. But, really, who knows why they want to make this a big deal now.
dawhizkid 8y ago
It is deeply uncomfortable working in the tech industry knowing how much Saudi money has been sunk into VC funds and VC-back tech cos (some of which I've worked for).
- walrus01 8y ago
  If that makes you uncomfortable, research how much Saudi money was already invested into US real estate and major financial companies when 9/11 happened. The deal since the post WW2 era has basically been: a) US and UK provide military equipment and military power to guarantee the security of the house of Saud. (Example: US reaction to the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait, operation desert shield/desert storm). b) Saudi government and ARAMCO extract a shitload of oil and sell it, while using technical services of US and UK oil companies c) Saudi government re-invests a certain huge amount of the proceeds from their post-1940s oil wealth into the US and UK economies.
  - dawhizkid 8y ago
    Sure, it's just much more tangible when you actively choose to work for a VC-backed tech co that has accepted Saudi money, especially coming off the news that Saudis are funding a large percentage of Softbank's newest fund.
- 75dvtwin 8y ago
  Money from Saudi Arabia and other Sunni-majority countries are well integrated into the world's Banking system. I doubt you can just carve out Saudi money out. Building such filters now, would be quite a challenge technically, and obviously, our politicians think that that would destabilize the region, or move the 'seems-like-our-allies' towards Russia/China. Plus it would affect dramatically London's real-estate prices (it will drop, by quite a bit) that could trigger some sort of short-term British pound crisis. Most of the leading European Banks offer what is known as 'Islamic Finance' products, as well (that's in addition to other integration methods). See (2015) "... There are currently six Islamic banks in Britain, while another 20 lenders currently offer Islamic financial products and services, more than any other Western country. Chancellor George Osborne has said promoting the Islamic finance industry, which is worth nearly $2 trillion, would help make Britain “the undisputed centre of the global financial system". Mr Ellwood also celebrated notable sharia-compliant investments that have been used to fund some of the capital’s largest developments, including The Shard and the Olympic Village. …" So VC money backed by Saudis is just one more, of many many vehicles employed. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/banksandfinance/11435465/Britain-to-lead-the-world-in-Islamic-finance.html https://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/banksandfin...
Salamat 8y ago
US intelligence knew what will happen to that journalist from intercepting communications.US intelligence just like that in UK, they know crimes are being committed but their job is to use it to blackmail politicians, they are not media outlet that would leak or alert to crimes being committed " startling evidence that Britain’s top law enforcement official knew there was a VIP pedophile network in Westminster, at the heart of the British government. What happened next in the summer of 1984 helps to explain how shocking allegations of rape and murder against some of the country’s most powerful men went unchecked for decades. https://www.thedailybeast.com/how-thatchers-government-covered-up-a-vip-pedophile-ring https://www.thedailybeast.com/how-thatchers-government-cover...
- dangsucks 8y ago
  I went through tour history and you sound like a person who considered all sides of argument. Please don't mind the downbotes, people here aren't open to opinion that shatters their reality
phs318u 8y ago
I cannot help but think that before this century ends (possibly even as early as 2050?), the KSA will have been reduced to that from which they came (before oil) i.e. not much. They will wield virtually no geopolitical influence. Within another hundred years, they will be a historical footnote.
- anothergoogler 8y ago
  Global warming won't do them any favors.
  - i_made_a_booboo 8y ago
    Maybe global warming is a secret plot done on purpose to make theer climate an impossible place to live.
- adrianN 8y ago
  They have ridiculous amounts of money, if they're not too stupid about it, their investments alone should guarantee them influence for the foreseeable future.
- propman 8y ago
  They have significant geopolitical power. The entire Sunni realm is essentially under their rule. They blockaded Qatar and every Sunni nation followed suit. They don’t have nukes but technically can call on Pakistan for their nukes anytime they want. The avg Saudi lives like an upper class westerner and by upper class I don’t mean upper middle class like the majority of us tech guys. The poor in KSA are all foreign workers, the Saudis barely work at all and are rich with servants and cushy govt jobs. They have the most influence in OPEC and they are now diversifying. KSA is invested all over SV. Uber, Tesla, Snapchat, biotech firms, SoftBank. Probably only 2nd to Russian oligarchs in terms of SV money. A bunch of princes are multibillionaires exclusively from American and British assets.
  - phs318u 8y ago
    True, but the excess of their riches is matched only by the profligacy of their spending and protected by the USA. Once the oil is gone or irrelevant they lose the protection of America, and become merely a bunch of rich oligarchs. Some will manage it well, most wont. EDIT: Forgot to add that their geopolitical power doesn’t come from their money but from their control of a global resource. If the unfortunate deaths of various Russian expat oligarchs has proven anything, it’s that no amount of money can buy you protection from a tier-1 state that wants you dead.
onetimemanytime 8y ago
Am considering taking Tesla private at $420. Funding secured. ;)
jlj 8y ago
Saudi PIF has a large stake in SoftBank. SoftBank has large stakes in a wide range of unicorns in the US and globally. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wsj.com/amp/articles/softbank-group-launches-investment-fund-1476398189 https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wsj.com/amp/articles/softba... http://www.arabnews.com/node/1324941/business-economy http://www.arabnews.com/node/1324941/business-economy
pimmen 8y ago
Saudi Arabia introduce some progressive reforms like women being able to vote, companies feel like the coast is clear for business, Saudi Arabia does something terrible, companies shy away. Reforming a country takes a long time, especially an absolute monarchy where the government owns the means of producing by far the most wealth in the country. So, my question is; if Western businesses keep doing this, is Saudi Arabia going to take two steps forward and one step back, inching their way towards progress, or just one step forward one step back staying in place?
glenrivard 8y ago
While this reporter is murdered we have POTUS encouraging his supporters to scream and yell in the face of the press at his rally. People talk about the hurricane hitting the US while he has his rally. But honestly the treatment of the press is a much bigger issue, IMO.
lenkite 8y ago
Well, we can rest safe and assured that our human rights are assiduously guarded by Saudi Arabia as the chair of the UN human rights commission. You have the right to be beheaded - chop! chop!

218 points by djrobstep 8y ago

anigbrowl 8y ago

not to worry, civility will get us through this problem

lamarpye 8y ago
That is really funny, when are you going on tour? I need to clear my calendar so I don't miss it.
- praneshp 8y ago
  I don't get the joke, are you hinting at Yanni? I went to his concert a couple of months ago and he was doing a lot advertising for Saudi
  - hayD00D 8y ago
    Sometimes, certain comedians have been known to go on tour. Imagine that. A comedian (any comedian) going on tour. The very idea of it. Incredible. Get it now?
- AnimalMuppet 8y ago
  I think that was /s, but I'm not sure...
  - lamarpye 8y ago
    Very perceptive.
mohammedbin 8y ago
People like you are the problem. Race relations have worsened during Obama time. Antifa was born. And you pretend that it's trumps fault and reference hillary comment. I hate Trump (and it's sad that I have to say this just for myself to be taken seriously) but he isn't the person killing 3 people in Chicago everyday.
duxup 8y ago
Sincere question, what does this mean?
- maxerickson 8y ago
  It's become common in the US to call for civility in politics, because civility is important. Simultaneously, it's likely that a US ally had a journalist murdered and dismembered in order to silence them and send a message to others that are thinking about writing critical things about Saudi Arabia. The implication is that the people calling for civility are living in some kind of fucked up dream land where being nice to bastards is important.
  - duxup 8y ago
    I think I understand what you're saying, but that interpretation seems disconnected too...
    - mercer 8y ago
      I might be wildly off about anigbrowl's comment, but for a while now it's been a bit of a 'meme' in the progressive(?) / left-but-serious-about-it camp that mainstream (US) democrats, and I suppose the bigger 'left' parties in Europe, have a weird kind of obsession with 'civility' and 'protocol' and whatnot while the world is burning, so to speak. his comment reminded me of that.

exabrial 8y ago

We've needed to for awhile, for a lot of reasons; from 911 passports to weapons proliferation.

hendzen 8y ago

$45 billion (soon to be 90) in Saudi money sloshing around in SV via SoftBank. Everyone is complicit.

i_am_nomad 8y ago
Seize it and distribute to the 9/11 survivors, first responders, and troops who served subsequently in Afghanistan.
- bilbo0s 8y ago
  Do that and foreign investment in the US would collapse. Very tangible difference between an asset FREEZE, and an asset SEIZURE. And it's a difference wealth prez guys take deadly seriously.
  - fjsolwmv 8y ago
    Perhaps it's good that blood money isn't used to invest in the US.

forapurpose 8y ago

> some of Neom’s advisory board members, including ... [Sam] Altman, who sat down with the prince in April, declined to comment on their involvement I hope he comments relatively soon (I'm not criticizing him for not commenting in time for this article). His leadership has a large influence on many, including in this forum. Tacit opposition and tacit support are the same thing.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
pinewurst 8y ago
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna919331 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna919331 Sam Altman, the president of Y Combinator, a startup incubator that has nurtured Airbnb and other well-known companies, suspended his involvement advising Saudi Arabia on a mega-city project there known as NEOM.
mercer 8y ago
I'm with with him taking his time to think on this, but anything less than a proper statement about this situation and explaining his reasons for being on this board would be highly disappointing.

walrus01 8y ago

Saudi Arabia also indefinitely detains womens' rights activists: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/saudi-arabia-death-penalty-ubc-graduate-1.4797113 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/saudi-arabia... https://www.google.com/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q=loujain+al-hathloul&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8 https://www.google.com/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q=lou... They pay lip service to modernization and liberalization (like the legal change allowing women to drive), but in actuality it's one step forward, two steps back. There is extensive documentation on the fact the Saudi Arabia and other states in the region fund fundamentalist, Hanafi / Wahabbist madrassas in Pakistan. Where do all the Pakistani jihadis fighting in Afghanistan come from? It's been known by intelligence agencies for years. https://www.google.com/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q=saudi+arabia+funding+madrassas+pakistan&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8 https://www.google.com/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q=sau...

Covzire 8y ago
Tells you who the ruling class is, doesn't it.
nahalz 8y ago
There is a certain, big attack on US soil that is also known to be the work of certain people
- aaronbrethorst 8y ago
  MbS: First of all, this Wahhabism—please define it for us. We’re not familiar with it. We don’t know about it. Goldberg: What do you mean you don’t know about it? MbS: What is Wahhabism? Goldberg: You’re the crown prince of Saudi Arabia. You know what Wahhabism is. MbS: No one can define this Wahhabism. Goldberg: It’s a movement founded by Ibn abd al-Wahhab in the 1700s, very fundamentalist in nature, an austere Salafist-style interpretation— MbS: No one can define Wahhabism. There is no Wahhabism. https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2018/04/mohammed-bin-salman-iran-israel/557036/ https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2018/04/mo...
  - 8y ago

minimaxir 8y ago

> Just got word that Y Combinator's Sam Altman is suspending his involvement with the board of Neom. His statement: "This is well out of my expertise, so I don't plan to comment on the case until the investigation is finished." https://twitter.com/RMac18/status/1050541832126455809 https://twitter.com/RMac18/status/1050541832126455809

mercer 8y ago
On the one hand I really try to be mindful of the concerns someone like Altman faces that I don't, but then on the other hand I don't understand how anyone with any conscience, integrity and basic knowledge of history/politics would be able to have anything to do with the Saudi government. Furthermore, if something is 'out of your expertise', why get into this situation in the first place? "ich habe es nicht gewusst" should at least not be valid approach/defense anymore.

40acres 8y ago

It was sad to watch so many "intellectual elites" fawn over MBS' "reforms". Wow women can drive and go to football games. Wow folks can watch Black Panther at the movies. All the while the Saudi government is bombing the hell of out kids in Yemen with bombs that have the US flag painted on em. Hopefully this will be the beginning of a thorough re-evaluation of our relationship with KSA but I highly doubt it.

firasd 8y ago
I was also suspicious of MBS' 'anti-corruption' drive last year. There is no doubt that there's corruption among the rich and powerful but a sudden purge seemed more like a power consolidation move https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Saudi_Arabian_purge https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Saudi_Arabian_purge
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- onetimemanytime 8y ago
  That's smart for him to do. If you want absolute power you need to scare the crap out of the competitors(1). Remember, the way he got power is new, and could be there for 50 years. Lots of super rich, but unhappy cousins and uncles. No doubt the Marriot family meeting will happen again and again. (1)...of course after you've made sure no coup d'etat happens in response. He's consolidating power but if recordings come out on how the journo was murdered, this guy will no longer meet Bill Gates or Bezos in his next US trip. He'll be treated like mad African dictators were.
- FundThrowaway 8y ago
  An anti-corruption drive is nearly always just a power shift. Look at the various ones in China, it's never about corruption and more about one branch of the political elite taking out another.
walrus01 8y ago
It is not just the USA. The UK is a major manufacturer and supplier of military equipment to the Saudis, as is Canada. In fact just about every NATO country sells a significant amount of armaments to the Saudi military. Take a look at the wikipedia page for the saudi army and saudi air force and examine what aircraft, vehicles and weapons systems they use. There are ongoing operational maintenance and training contracts worth billions. US "advisors" employed by major defense contractors are in Saudi Arabia right now training the Saudi air force. https://www.google.com/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q=uk+arms+deal+saudi&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8 https://www.google.com/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q=uk+...

yasserd99 8y ago

the problem is most of of US citizens judge Saudi Arabia without knowing what is really going on, adopting an opinion based on what they see on the news - which is in English - I laugh when I see some of the comments, especially from seemingly intellectual people.

why_only_15 8y ago
Tell us then, O wise Saudi Arabian, what is really going on?
jnaina 8y ago
As someone with relatives who live and work in the KSA as expats, the perception that Americans and the world has about KSA is pretty much on point. It’s a country ruled by a brutal kleptocractic family, which uses a particularly ultra conservative strain of Islam (Wahabisim) to keep themselves and their elite cronies in power.

senderista 8y ago

So the Saudis can be responsible for the worst cholera epidemic in history and the direct killing of thousands of civilians in Yemen, but killing one journalist is suddenly a bridge too far?

walrus01 8y ago
The cynical answer is, basically, the Houthis are backed by Iran, who the US is happy to allow a US-equipment-supplied third party military to attack, because, well, "fuck iran", right? Axis of evil, nuclear program and all that. Iran's support for Hezbollah, which is in direct contradiction to the US' ongoing support of Israel, etc.
King-Aaron 8y ago
Don't forget financing a handful of domestic airline tickets in 2001 (etc).
rgbrenner 8y ago
That's the way the world is. People only seem to sit up and take notice of terrible things on occasion. The answer isn't to be critical of them taking notice now, but to use it to make them aware of the other terrible things the same group is also doing.
- jiveturkey 8y ago
  they were aware. these are smart people. they don’t live under a rock.
jahaja 8y ago
It's a sad testament of how important and well shielded upper middle class sensibilities are. What you describe won't rattle those much, however, a violation of the sanctity of journalists clearly will. It's, imo, a blatantly corrupt set of ethics.
mc32 8y ago
Yeah, that's a weird one. Also interesting is that they are being outed by a regime which itself does some of the same things SA does (with regard to dissidents). Maybe it's because the US has taken some of the aid from Turkey and they want the same to happen to SA. But, really, who knows why they want to make this a big deal now.

dawhizkid 8y ago

It is deeply uncomfortable working in the tech industry knowing how much Saudi money has been sunk into VC funds and VC-back tech cos (some of which I've worked for).

walrus01 8y ago
If that makes you uncomfortable, research how much Saudi money was already invested into US real estate and major financial companies when 9/11 happened. The deal since the post WW2 era has basically been: a) US and UK provide military equipment and military power to guarantee the security of the house of Saud. (Example: US reaction to the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait, operation desert shield/desert storm). b) Saudi government and ARAMCO extract a shitload of oil and sell it, while using technical services of US and UK oil companies c) Saudi government re-invests a certain huge amount of the proceeds from their post-1940s oil wealth into the US and UK economies.
- dawhizkid 8y ago
  Sure, it's just much more tangible when you actively choose to work for a VC-backed tech co that has accepted Saudi money, especially coming off the news that Saudis are funding a large percentage of Softbank's newest fund.
75dvtwin 8y ago
Money from Saudi Arabia and other Sunni-majority countries are well integrated into the world's Banking system. I doubt you can just carve out Saudi money out. Building such filters now, would be quite a challenge technically, and obviously, our politicians think that that would destabilize the region, or move the 'seems-like-our-allies' towards Russia/China. Plus it would affect dramatically London's real-estate prices (it will drop, by quite a bit) that could trigger some sort of short-term British pound crisis. Most of the leading European Banks offer what is known as 'Islamic Finance' products, as well (that's in addition to other integration methods). See (2015) "... There are currently six Islamic banks in Britain, while another 20 lenders currently offer Islamic financial products and services, more than any other Western country. Chancellor George Osborne has said promoting the Islamic finance industry, which is worth nearly $2 trillion, would help make Britain “the undisputed centre of the global financial system". Mr Ellwood also celebrated notable sharia-compliant investments that have been used to fund some of the capital’s largest developments, including The Shard and the Olympic Village. …" So VC money backed by Saudis is just one more, of many many vehicles employed. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/banksandfinance/11435465/Britain-to-lead-the-world-in-Islamic-finance.html https://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/banksandfin...

Salamat 8y ago

US intelligence knew what will happen to that journalist from intercepting communications.US intelligence just like that in UK, they know crimes are being committed but their job is to use it to blackmail politicians, they are not media outlet that would leak or alert to crimes being committed " startling evidence that Britain’s top law enforcement official knew there was a VIP pedophile network in Westminster, at the heart of the British government. What happened next in the summer of 1984 helps to explain how shocking allegations of rape and murder against some of the country’s most powerful men went unchecked for decades. https://www.thedailybeast.com/how-thatchers-government-covered-up-a-vip-pedophile-ring https://www.thedailybeast.com/how-thatchers-government-cover...

dangsucks 8y ago
I went through tour history and you sound like a person who considered all sides of argument. Please don't mind the downbotes, people here aren't open to opinion that shatters their reality

phs318u 8y ago

I cannot help but think that before this century ends (possibly even as early as 2050?), the KSA will have been reduced to that from which they came (before oil) i.e. not much. They will wield virtually no geopolitical influence. Within another hundred years, they will be a historical footnote.

anothergoogler 8y ago
Global warming won't do them any favors.
- i_made_a_booboo 8y ago
  Maybe global warming is a secret plot done on purpose to make theer climate an impossible place to live.
adrianN 8y ago
They have ridiculous amounts of money, if they're not too stupid about it, their investments alone should guarantee them influence for the foreseeable future.
propman 8y ago
They have significant geopolitical power. The entire Sunni realm is essentially under their rule. They blockaded Qatar and every Sunni nation followed suit. They don’t have nukes but technically can call on Pakistan for their nukes anytime they want. The avg Saudi lives like an upper class westerner and by upper class I don’t mean upper middle class like the majority of us tech guys. The poor in KSA are all foreign workers, the Saudis barely work at all and are rich with servants and cushy govt jobs. They have the most influence in OPEC and they are now diversifying. KSA is invested all over SV. Uber, Tesla, Snapchat, biotech firms, SoftBank. Probably only 2nd to Russian oligarchs in terms of SV money. A bunch of princes are multibillionaires exclusively from American and British assets.
- phs318u 8y ago
  True, but the excess of their riches is matched only by the profligacy of their spending and protected by the USA. Once the oil is gone or irrelevant they lose the protection of America, and become merely a bunch of rich oligarchs. Some will manage it well, most wont. EDIT: Forgot to add that their geopolitical power doesn’t come from their money but from their control of a global resource. If the unfortunate deaths of various Russian expat oligarchs has proven anything, it’s that no amount of money can buy you protection from a tier-1 state that wants you dead.

onetimemanytime 8y ago

Am considering taking Tesla private at $420. Funding secured. ;)

jlj 8y ago

Saudi PIF has a large stake in SoftBank. SoftBank has large stakes in a wide range of unicorns in the US and globally. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wsj.com/amp/articles/softbank-group-launches-investment-fund-1476398189 https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wsj.com/amp/articles/softba... http://www.arabnews.com/node/1324941/business-economy http://www.arabnews.com/node/1324941/business-economy

pimmen 8y ago

Saudi Arabia introduce some progressive reforms like women being able to vote, companies feel like the coast is clear for business, Saudi Arabia does something terrible, companies shy away. Reforming a country takes a long time, especially an absolute monarchy where the government owns the means of producing by far the most wealth in the country. So, my question is; if Western businesses keep doing this, is Saudi Arabia going to take two steps forward and one step back, inching their way towards progress, or just one step forward one step back staying in place?

glenrivard 8y ago

While this reporter is murdered we have POTUS encouraging his supporters to scream and yell in the face of the press at his rally. People talk about the hurricane hitting the US while he has his rally. But honestly the treatment of the press is a much bigger issue, IMO.

lenkite 8y ago

Well, we can rest safe and assured that our human rights are assiduously guarded by Saudi Arabia as the chair of the UN human rights commission. You have the right to be beheaded - chop! chop!