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I don't think anyone is arguing against the idea that there exist biological differences between the sexes. What people question is the conclusions people draw

I don't think anyone is arguing against the idea that there exist biological differences between the sexes. What people question is the conclusions people draw from those differences, such as that men or women must as a consequence be superior or inferior at a given task when the differences are so small that they would easily be overcome by many other more salient ones like training, upbringing, or simply the fact that one person does not represent the average and is not necessarily subject to differences described by it. Just below in this thread someone was thinking this perceptual speed difference might explain men being dominant in e-sports. The amount of confounding variables there is astronomical and the suggestion is that we should set them aside in order to accept that men are biologically just better at games. That's the kind of thought process people disagree with. (I don't mean to throw this other person under the bus, it was likely just an idle thought, but idle thoughts can turn into convictions if not challenged.)

YouOkOrNot 8y ago
But it make logical sense to conclude that biological gender differences confer specific advantages to one gender or the other in different tasks or situations. More generally, when there is a salient difference between two things, those two things will often behave differently in a given situation. It just makes sense to conclude that men are better at certain things and women are better at certain things.
dubya23 8y ago
But men ARE better at games and they ARE stronger physically and they ARE faster and they DO have better reaction times. We can debate the reasons all day and I'm happy to do so but the problem is that people are denying the basic measurements.
- kthejoker2 8y ago
  I'm just not sure how relevant Usain Bolt's top speed is to whether women can serve in ground combat roles, to pick a long-standing gender discrimination based more or less on the sentiments of your post.
  - dubya23 8y ago
    Usain Bolts may not be but the averages certainly are. I think it's pretty obvious that if a woman can pass the same fitness requirements that men have then they should be able to serve in combat. If you are lowering the requirements to allow them in that's dangerous.
Faark 8y ago
> someone was thinking this perceptual speed difference might explain men being dominant in e-sports And i was imagining it to be the other way around. A stronger focus in male youth on sport, games and other competitive activities might produce better reaction times. That, ofc, is just my first thought as armchair scientist without access to that work beyond the summary. I just want society to let scientists actually figure out all the details before we use that knowledge to drive policy and not just use it in whatever way satisfies our internal desires.
- dotancohen 8y ago
  > I just want society to let scientists actually figure out all the details before we use that knowledge to drive policy Science doesn't work like that. Our understandings constantly change, and most of the time that change is an improvement. But there never is an end point where scientists have figured out all the details. Also, policy needs to be implemented continuously. Policy makers use (or disregard) the current state of knowledge, whatever that state may be.

YouOkOrNot 8y ago

But it make logical sense to conclude that biological gender differences confer specific advantages to one gender or the other in different tasks or situations. More generally, when there is a salient difference between two things, those two things will often behave differently in a given situation. It just makes sense to conclude that men are better at certain things and women are better at certain things.

dubya23 8y ago

But men ARE better at games and they ARE stronger physically and they ARE faster and they DO have better reaction times. We can debate the reasons all day and I'm happy to do so but the problem is that people are denying the basic measurements.

kthejoker2 8y ago
I'm just not sure how relevant Usain Bolt's top speed is to whether women can serve in ground combat roles, to pick a long-standing gender discrimination based more or less on the sentiments of your post.
- dubya23 8y ago
  Usain Bolts may not be but the averages certainly are. I think it's pretty obvious that if a woman can pass the same fitness requirements that men have then they should be able to serve in combat. If you are lowering the requirements to allow them in that's dangerous.

Faark 8y ago

> someone was thinking this perceptual speed difference might explain men being dominant in e-sports And i was imagining it to be the other way around. A stronger focus in male youth on sport, games and other competitive activities might produce better reaction times. That, ofc, is just my first thought as armchair scientist without access to that work beyond the summary. I just want society to let scientists actually figure out all the details before we use that knowledge to drive policy and not just use it in whatever way satisfies our internal desires.

dotancohen 8y ago
> I just want society to let scientists actually figure out all the details before we use that knowledge to drive policy Science doesn't work like that. Our understandings constantly change, and most of the time that change is an improvement. But there never is an end point where scientists have figured out all the details. Also, policy needs to be implemented continuously. Policy makers use (or disregard) the current state of knowledge, whatever that state may be.