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This is a bit puzzling for me: 1. A React app is still DOM-based. Normal accessibility practices still apply, as they do for any other SPAs 2. It takes maybe

This is a bit puzzling for me: 1. A React app is still DOM-based. Normal accessibility practices still apply, as they do for any other SPAs 2. It takes maybe a week to learn enough of JSX and React to get started on accessibility tasks This sounds like refusing to work on a new codebase without actually being invested into it. Also got a combative feeling from reading a few PRs, where simple style issues are discussed at length vs just fixed with one variable change. Am I reading it wrong? All the best luck for Matthew.

kroosaidher 8y ago
Exactly! They spent time and energy on this new codebase without gaining consensuses on the value of the new codebase and without giving their accessibility experts reasons to feel invested. And without investing in training them. Why is user experience and accessibility always someone else's problem? Why does the burden of "learning enough" to do their job correctly always fall on everyone except the engineers who advocate doing these complete rewrites? React and JSX are not open web standards. They're popular, but they're are not a common denominator. They require you to learn and use JavaScript first and foremost and were designed uninclusively with software engineers as the audience. This is a stark contrast to the declarative languages of CSS and HTML that were designed inclusively with designers and other non-programmers as an audience. So, you know what? It's no surprise that a React rewrite alienated an accessibility team. It's no surprise that the accessibility team worked their asses off to try to demonstrate the value of inclusiveness and tried without success to train these engineers and get problems the engineers created fixed, only to be told the issue was going about it the wrong way. React's fanbase largely views inclusiveness and accessibility as an optional, bolt on feature that can be addressed later. As something it's okay to sacrifice on the alter of the new hotness. React's fanbase doesn't give a crap if someone who could previously contribute something very valuable very effectively can't anymore. Someone who has concerns other than learning new languages and frameworks constantly should just get out of way, they're clearly too dumb or too old to matter.
ilaksh 8y ago
It takes more than a week if you're not already a JavaScript software engineer.
- ricardobeat 8y ago
  You can’t do proper accessibility work today without JS, regardless of React. Either for dynamic content, or features like a focus trap that browsers don’t offer natively.

kroosaidher 8y ago

Exactly! They spent time and energy on this new codebase without gaining consensuses on the value of the new codebase and without giving their accessibility experts reasons to feel invested. And without investing in training them. Why is user experience and accessibility always someone else's problem? Why does the burden of "learning enough" to do their job correctly always fall on everyone except the engineers who advocate doing these complete rewrites? React and JSX are not open web standards. They're popular, but they're are not a common denominator. They require you to learn and use JavaScript first and foremost and were designed uninclusively with software engineers as the audience. This is a stark contrast to the declarative languages of CSS and HTML that were designed inclusively with designers and other non-programmers as an audience. So, you know what? It's no surprise that a React rewrite alienated an accessibility team. It's no surprise that the accessibility team worked their asses off to try to demonstrate the value of inclusiveness and tried without success to train these engineers and get problems the engineers created fixed, only to be told the issue was going about it the wrong way. React's fanbase largely views inclusiveness and accessibility as an optional, bolt on feature that can be addressed later. As something it's okay to sacrifice on the alter of the new hotness. React's fanbase doesn't give a crap if someone who could previously contribute something very valuable very effectively can't anymore. Someone who has concerns other than learning new languages and frameworks constantly should just get out of way, they're clearly too dumb or too old to matter.

ilaksh 8y ago

It takes more than a week if you're not already a JavaScript software engineer.

ricardobeat 8y ago
You can’t do proper accessibility work today without JS, regardless of React. Either for dynamic content, or features like a focus trap that browsers don’t offer natively.