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Dating in these cities as a single man in your 20s and 30s is good for the soul. It forces you to actually develop a personality, figure out how to be fun to be

Dating in these cities as a single man in your 20s and 30s is good for the soul. It forces you to actually develop a personality, figure out how to be fun to be around. Have something interesting going on for you besides working at startup x or being Senior Frontend Engineer at Uber #775. Women in a city like SF expect more from you, they're not that impressed with money or the fact that you have a stable job. Some look at it as a disadvantage, but is actually an upside. Some men come out of the experience jaded and bitter, blaming "the 49ers" and the ratio. Others take it as an opportunity to step it up and have more to offer to a potential partner. You attract who you are. Disclaimer: huge generalizations above, take with a pound of salt.

jsharf 8y ago
This is really just trying way too hard to make the best of a shit situation. I know what you're saying, but consider the implications that this argument has for women in the bay area. So as a straight man, fierce competition presumably "forces you to develop a personality" (I think this is actually a pretty dangerous thought in that it suggests that single guys are lacking something in their personality which would net them a girlfriend). So after all this self improvement, it's so that you can meet women who don't have the same driving forces, and actually have quite the opposite -- they can just choose not to date you because you have a funny haircut or they aren't sure and don't feel like following up. That mismatch of effort is a great way to drive resentment on both sides. I'm not trying to place blame here. All I'm saying is: if you're a single straight male in the bay area, it's probably just the gender ratio of your social circle and social habits. Don't turn blame inwards towards perceived personality defects. In a different city or different friend group you might get drastically different results
- ben_jones 8y ago
  I do turn inward when I think of things like "why I'm single": personality, my social circle is almost entirely co-workers, I spend a most of my time working or playing video games, I work out a little but not enough, etc. The reality is that I can change these habits if I really want to change the outcome. It feels bad sometimes, but it's the reality whether its "right" or "wrong".
  - BadassFractal 8y ago
    Few things make people as uncomfortable as telling them "hey, maybe your victim mentality isn't helping you and you actually do have a shot at this, you just need to work harder than others". Life's not fair, I guess? If you don't want it that bad, then plenty of other, much more motivated men, will work for it. It's a little like entrepreneurship and complaining that your parents aren't millionaires and can't seed fund your first venture, so why even bother.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
    - tuesdayrain 8y ago
      Reading that genuinely made me feel uncomfortable but I'm glad you wrote it, I think I needed to hear that. Something about imagining all the other men who are much more motivated than me really gives me a deep desire to prove myself.
- nradov 8y ago
  From what I've seen, the Bay Area men who struggle the most with dating really do have defective personalities — at least in the sense that they don't align with what most women want. Some introspection and focus on self improvement would often help them break out of their rut.
ikeyany 8y ago
Sounds like a rat race, albeit a different flavor than what you'd see somewhere like DC.
Meekro 8y ago
It's a zero-sum game, and the gender ratio guarantees that the majority of those trying to follow your advice will still fail. I agree with you that adversity can lead to personal growth, but failing too many times can cause some people to become demoralized. You conceded as much when you said that "some men come out of the experience jaded and bitter." It sounds like they'd be better served by a less one-sided dating environment, where they could actually land a date here and there and gain some confidence in the process.
bsder 8y ago
> Dating in these cities as a single man in your 20s and 30s is good for the soul. It forces you to actually develop a personality, figure out how to be fun to be around. Have something interesting going on for you besides working at startup x. And the women will ignore you anyway because they only care about someone who is a 9/10 and makes at least $300K+. Why stack the deck against yourself? If you are a guy looking for a woman, LEAVE THE BAY AREA. Period. Pick something from here: https://www.bestplaces.net/docs/studies/solocities_gap1.aspx https://www.bestplaces.net/docs/studies/solocities_gap1.aspx The DC area is almost as heavily imbalanced with women as the Bay Area is imbalanced with men.
- BadassFractal 8y ago
  As someone who's nowhere close to any of those numbers and has had an exceptional level of success in the Bay, I can tell you that those requirements are bullshit, and very, very common justifications that men tell themselves to resort to inaction. Dating is like anything else, it's a skill. So is knowing how to present yourself, how to be charismatic, how to market yourself, how to be at the right place at the right time. It's a crazy amount of effort, and it takes years, but again, if you want it bad enough, it's doable. It's kind of like fitness, it will take you many years and a serious amount of lifestyle changes and sacrifice to go from overweight to looking like a fitness model, but it's doable if that's what you want. The Bay is hard, but then you can extend that reasoning to all dating. Why bother dating American women who want you to have your shit together? Buy a mail order bride from a third world country, who will appreciate you for putting a roof over her head. Go with that arbitrage then.
  - bsder 8y ago
    > As someone who's nowhere close to any of those numbers and has had an exceptional level of success in the Bay, I can tell you that those requirements are bullshit, and very, very common justifications that men tell themselves to resort to inaction. I am glad for your success, but my anecdata contradicts yours. From my social circle, I can tick off almost a dozen men who had a really rough time dating in the Bay Area. After they left for places with a better gender balance, they did dramatically better. They went from practically no dates to quite a robust social calendar. And, it seems that the quality of the women they were meeting got quite a bit better. They didn't all magically get smarter, funnier, fitter, etc. simply by moving.

jsharf 8y ago

This is really just trying way too hard to make the best of a shit situation. I know what you're saying, but consider the implications that this argument has for women in the bay area. So as a straight man, fierce competition presumably "forces you to develop a personality" (I think this is actually a pretty dangerous thought in that it suggests that single guys are lacking something in their personality which would net them a girlfriend). So after all this self improvement, it's so that you can meet women who don't have the same driving forces, and actually have quite the opposite -- they can just choose not to date you because you have a funny haircut or they aren't sure and don't feel like following up. That mismatch of effort is a great way to drive resentment on both sides. I'm not trying to place blame here. All I'm saying is: if you're a single straight male in the bay area, it's probably just the gender ratio of your social circle and social habits. Don't turn blame inwards towards perceived personality defects. In a different city or different friend group you might get drastically different results

ben_jones 8y ago
I do turn inward when I think of things like "why I'm single": personality, my social circle is almost entirely co-workers, I spend a most of my time working or playing video games, I work out a little but not enough, etc. The reality is that I can change these habits if I really want to change the outcome. It feels bad sometimes, but it's the reality whether its "right" or "wrong".
- BadassFractal 8y ago
  Few things make people as uncomfortable as telling them "hey, maybe your victim mentality isn't helping you and you actually do have a shot at this, you just need to work harder than others". Life's not fair, I guess? If you don't want it that bad, then plenty of other, much more motivated men, will work for it. It's a little like entrepreneurship and complaining that your parents aren't millionaires and can't seed fund your first venture, so why even bother.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - tuesdayrain 8y ago
    Reading that genuinely made me feel uncomfortable but I'm glad you wrote it, I think I needed to hear that. Something about imagining all the other men who are much more motivated than me really gives me a deep desire to prove myself.
nradov 8y ago
From what I've seen, the Bay Area men who struggle the most with dating really do have defective personalities — at least in the sense that they don't align with what most women want. Some introspection and focus on self improvement would often help them break out of their rut.

ikeyany 8y ago

Sounds like a rat race, albeit a different flavor than what you'd see somewhere like DC.

Meekro 8y ago

It's a zero-sum game, and the gender ratio guarantees that the majority of those trying to follow your advice will still fail. I agree with you that adversity can lead to personal growth, but failing too many times can cause some people to become demoralized. You conceded as much when you said that "some men come out of the experience jaded and bitter." It sounds like they'd be better served by a less one-sided dating environment, where they could actually land a date here and there and gain some confidence in the process.

bsder 8y ago

> Dating in these cities as a single man in your 20s and 30s is good for the soul. It forces you to actually develop a personality, figure out how to be fun to be around. Have something interesting going on for you besides working at startup x. And the women will ignore you anyway because they only care about someone who is a 9/10 and makes at least $300K+. Why stack the deck against yourself? If you are a guy looking for a woman, LEAVE THE BAY AREA. Period. Pick something from here: https://www.bestplaces.net/docs/studies/solocities_gap1.aspx https://www.bestplaces.net/docs/studies/solocities_gap1.aspx The DC area is almost as heavily imbalanced with women as the Bay Area is imbalanced with men.

BadassFractal 8y ago
As someone who's nowhere close to any of those numbers and has had an exceptional level of success in the Bay, I can tell you that those requirements are bullshit, and very, very common justifications that men tell themselves to resort to inaction. Dating is like anything else, it's a skill. So is knowing how to present yourself, how to be charismatic, how to market yourself, how to be at the right place at the right time. It's a crazy amount of effort, and it takes years, but again, if you want it bad enough, it's doable. It's kind of like fitness, it will take you many years and a serious amount of lifestyle changes and sacrifice to go from overweight to looking like a fitness model, but it's doable if that's what you want. The Bay is hard, but then you can extend that reasoning to all dating. Why bother dating American women who want you to have your shit together? Buy a mail order bride from a third world country, who will appreciate you for putting a roof over her head. Go with that arbitrage then.
- bsder 8y ago
  > As someone who's nowhere close to any of those numbers and has had an exceptional level of success in the Bay, I can tell you that those requirements are bullshit, and very, very common justifications that men tell themselves to resort to inaction. I am glad for your success, but my anecdata contradicts yours. From my social circle, I can tick off almost a dozen men who had a really rough time dating in the Bay Area. After they left for places with a better gender balance, they did dramatically better. They went from practically no dates to quite a robust social calendar. And, it seems that the quality of the women they were meeting got quite a bit better. They didn't all magically get smarter, funnier, fitter, etc. simply by moving.