5 ms·

The laundry industry is in a spin to save water

wnevets 8y ago
how about washing machines that don't fall apart after a few years? Surely that has a larger impact on the environment https://medium.com/@ryanfinlay/they-used-to-last-50-years-c3383ff28a8e https://medium.com/@ryanfinlay/they-used-to-last-50-years-c3...
- analog31 8y ago
  I've been shocked by how many of my home appliances I've had to fix in the past 20 or so years. I think that I've fixed or replaced every single appliance in my house, some of them more than once. And I have to pay 35 bucks to dispose of an appliance. On the other hand, it could be perception. My parents had to fix appliances too. (I grew up in a fix-it family). And we have more appliances now. For instance home computers didn't exist when I was a kid. And there is a balancing force. While stuff breaks, the ability to find repair instructions online has been a godsend. I swear that whenever I experience a problem with technology, someone else has already had the same problem, fixed it, and blogged or YouTube'd about it.
  - dazc 8y ago
    'My parents had to fix appliances too.' True, TVs would break down regularly and other appliances had basic design flaws which required constant attention. It was uncommon to see stuff like washing machines and fridges being disposed of though.
    - Scoundreller 8y ago
      At least newer fridges are usually so much more efficient that it can be worth replacing them every few decades.
  - eesmith 8y ago
    While they didn't have a home computer, your parents likely did have to replace tubes, perhaps using a grocery-store tube-tester - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tube_tester#Self-service_tube_testers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tube_tester#Self-service_tube_... .
- Scoundreller 8y ago
  At least it’s easy to find a YouTube video on virtually every problem these days. I’ve been able to fix a washing machine (why is the filter cleanout behind an access panel with 3 difficult to remove screws?), a flat panel TV (flex cable came loose), a gas water heater (just had to sand the thermocouple), another water heater in a hard water area (thank you SharkBites!) and a garage door opener (you should open them up and re-grease them every 10 years).
- NeedMoreTea 8y ago
  The sad thing is even the top end machines and brands are made no better, just more features. While we're here. How about appliances that don't combine every simple part into modules that make many simple repairs uneconomic?
- function_seven 8y ago
  I've never owned a new machine. For me it's always used machines that use mechanical timers and relays and dumb electronics. If there's a circuit board, it's usually beige and the traces are likely to be hand-drawn. These things are stupid easy to maintain. But I'm afraid of the coming shortage of replacement parts. (How long can Sears go on?) Bonus: No mold problems with traditional top loaders. And I can throw a last-minute item into the mix if I forgot it.
- hutattedonmyarm 8y ago
  I have a 20 year old Miele at home (manufacture date is June 1998). It's dead simpel to repair end even includes the scmeatics of its circuit board on the inside!
- Aloha 8y ago
  You can still buy a long lasting washer dryer. https://www.speedqueen.com/ https://www.speedqueen.com/ They build their home washers to the same quality as the commercial ones, and they're american made.
- secabeen 8y ago
  I've read that before, and he neglects to mention that appliances used to cost a lot more. It's a bit hard to find pricing, but here's one reference I found with fridges in 1968 at prices between $350-450: https://www.automatice.org/cgi-bin/index.cgi?showdoc~657~~ https://www.automatice.org/cgi-bin/index.cgi?showdoc~657~~ In 2018 dollars, that's around $3000. You can get a low-end fridge today for under $400. When a product's price hasn't changed over 50 years, that's achieved by technology, and by cutting materials costs.
  - jbob2000 8y ago
    The price drop is probably because your fridge is built in China or Mexico instead of a neighboring city. That, and it’s made with more plastic. Compare the weight of an old fridge to a new one and you can see where the savings came from.
  - humantiy 8y ago
    The price has changed though if you're including the cost of the longevity. Also comparing low end fridge to what was high end or standard at the time I don't think is a fair comparison. Granted price wise its the 'same' but if modern stuff lasts half to a 1/3 as long then the new appliances are far more expansive.
- humantiy 8y ago
  I think that is something people take for granted and misunderstand. The manufacturing process & transporting takes a large amount of energy and resources. It's far more eco friendly for an appliance to last years vs some small savings on less water usage or energy bills. I think we'd all like both, but if I had to pick I'd rather it last longer so I don't have to worry about it. I just had to buy a new fridge a few months back and this is another thing that makes me angry. Why is it that the standard sizes always seem to change as well? My house was made in the 1980s and most kitchen appliances we've replaced had to be 'custom orders' because the standard sizes have changed. Do they expect us to also upgrade our cabinets every time these appliances break and they decide to add an inch to the height or width.
ryandrake 8y ago
I've found anything marketed as "water saving" is pretty much inferior crap to be avoided. From dishwashers to laundry machines, to shower heads, to toilets. I probably end up using more water with the "water saving" models due to having to use them twice as much/long. Combined with the designed-to-fail nature wnevets points out in his/her comment, I would steer clear of any appliance built in the last 30 years or so, particularly anything marked as "energy saving" or "water saving", which are both synonymous for junk.
- devoply 8y ago
  I wonder why a startup doesn't popup to eat the lunch of all these shitty products.
  - function_seven 8y ago
    Water saving stuff has gotten better and better, but there's only so much you can do with less water. I don't know that a startup would be able to find efficiencies that haven't already been wrung out by established players. And they can't just produce toilets/showerheads/etc. that just use more water. Regulations won't allow it.
    - Scoundreller 8y ago
      Nothing a drill bit and some patience can't fix for the showerheads, or just remove any flow restrictors. The toilets can be adjusted, but the new tech works pretty well.
    - PhasmaFelis 8y ago
      I used to work in a place where the toilet-flush levers went two ways: down gets you a low-water flush for #1, up gets you a high-power one for #2. I thought that was interesting. Dunno the regulatory situation around it, though.
      - bradknowles 8y ago
        Dual-flush toilets have been used in Europe for many years. When we moved there in 1998, we had an apartment that was kitted out with one that looked to be more than a decade old at the time, and it worked fine. I can confirm that modern Toto toilets are also a wonder of engineering. My wife and I are planning on replacing all the old toilets in the house, now that we have a Toto downstairs. Not only does it use much less water, it can also handle way more ... material ... than anything else I have ever seen. Worth the money at ten times the price. And yes, you can get Toto toilets that also do the dual-flush.

how about washing machines that don't fall apart after a few years? Surely that has a larger impact on the environment https://medium.com/@ryanfinlay/they-used-to-last-50-years-c3383ff28a8e https://medium.com/@ryanfinlay/they-used-to-last-50-years-c3...

analog31 8y ago
I've been shocked by how many of my home appliances I've had to fix in the past 20 or so years. I think that I've fixed or replaced every single appliance in my house, some of them more than once. And I have to pay 35 bucks to dispose of an appliance. On the other hand, it could be perception. My parents had to fix appliances too. (I grew up in a fix-it family). And we have more appliances now. For instance home computers didn't exist when I was a kid. And there is a balancing force. While stuff breaks, the ability to find repair instructions online has been a godsend. I swear that whenever I experience a problem with technology, someone else has already had the same problem, fixed it, and blogged or YouTube'd about it.
- dazc 8y ago
  'My parents had to fix appliances too.' True, TVs would break down regularly and other appliances had basic design flaws which required constant attention. It was uncommon to see stuff like washing machines and fridges being disposed of though.
  - Scoundreller 8y ago
    At least newer fridges are usually so much more efficient that it can be worth replacing them every few decades.
- eesmith 8y ago
  While they didn't have a home computer, your parents likely did have to replace tubes, perhaps using a grocery-store tube-tester - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tube_tester#Self-service_tube_testers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tube_tester#Self-service_tube_... .
Scoundreller 8y ago
At least it’s easy to find a YouTube video on virtually every problem these days. I’ve been able to fix a washing machine (why is the filter cleanout behind an access panel with 3 difficult to remove screws?), a flat panel TV (flex cable came loose), a gas water heater (just had to sand the thermocouple), another water heater in a hard water area (thank you SharkBites!) and a garage door opener (you should open them up and re-grease them every 10 years).
NeedMoreTea 8y ago
The sad thing is even the top end machines and brands are made no better, just more features. While we're here. How about appliances that don't combine every simple part into modules that make many simple repairs uneconomic?
function_seven 8y ago
I've never owned a new machine. For me it's always used machines that use mechanical timers and relays and dumb electronics. If there's a circuit board, it's usually beige and the traces are likely to be hand-drawn. These things are stupid easy to maintain. But I'm afraid of the coming shortage of replacement parts. (How long can Sears go on?) Bonus: No mold problems with traditional top loaders. And I can throw a last-minute item into the mix if I forgot it.
hutattedonmyarm 8y ago
I have a 20 year old Miele at home (manufacture date is June 1998). It's dead simpel to repair end even includes the scmeatics of its circuit board on the inside!
Aloha 8y ago
You can still buy a long lasting washer dryer. https://www.speedqueen.com/ https://www.speedqueen.com/ They build their home washers to the same quality as the commercial ones, and they're american made.
secabeen 8y ago
I've read that before, and he neglects to mention that appliances used to cost a lot more. It's a bit hard to find pricing, but here's one reference I found with fridges in 1968 at prices between $350-450: https://www.automatice.org/cgi-bin/index.cgi?showdoc~657~~ https://www.automatice.org/cgi-bin/index.cgi?showdoc~657~~ In 2018 dollars, that's around $3000. You can get a low-end fridge today for under $400. When a product's price hasn't changed over 50 years, that's achieved by technology, and by cutting materials costs.
- jbob2000 8y ago
  The price drop is probably because your fridge is built in China or Mexico instead of a neighboring city. That, and it’s made with more plastic. Compare the weight of an old fridge to a new one and you can see where the savings came from.
- humantiy 8y ago
  The price has changed though if you're including the cost of the longevity. Also comparing low end fridge to what was high end or standard at the time I don't think is a fair comparison. Granted price wise its the 'same' but if modern stuff lasts half to a 1/3 as long then the new appliances are far more expansive.
humantiy 8y ago
I think that is something people take for granted and misunderstand. The manufacturing process & transporting takes a large amount of energy and resources. It's far more eco friendly for an appliance to last years vs some small savings on less water usage or energy bills. I think we'd all like both, but if I had to pick I'd rather it last longer so I don't have to worry about it. I just had to buy a new fridge a few months back and this is another thing that makes me angry. Why is it that the standard sizes always seem to change as well? My house was made in the 1980s and most kitchen appliances we've replaced had to be 'custom orders' because the standard sizes have changed. Do they expect us to also upgrade our cabinets every time these appliances break and they decide to add an inch to the height or width.

ryandrake 8y ago

I've found anything marketed as "water saving" is pretty much inferior crap to be avoided. From dishwashers to laundry machines, to shower heads, to toilets. I probably end up using more water with the "water saving" models due to having to use them twice as much/long. Combined with the designed-to-fail nature wnevets points out in his/her comment, I would steer clear of any appliance built in the last 30 years or so, particularly anything marked as "energy saving" or "water saving", which are both synonymous for junk.

devoply 8y ago
I wonder why a startup doesn't popup to eat the lunch of all these shitty products.
- function_seven 8y ago
  Water saving stuff has gotten better and better, but there's only so much you can do with less water. I don't know that a startup would be able to find efficiencies that haven't already been wrung out by established players. And they can't just produce toilets/showerheads/etc. that just use more water. Regulations won't allow it.
  - Scoundreller 8y ago
    Nothing a drill bit and some patience can't fix for the showerheads, or just remove any flow restrictors. The toilets can be adjusted, but the new tech works pretty well.
  - PhasmaFelis 8y ago
    I used to work in a place where the toilet-flush levers went two ways: down gets you a low-water flush for #1, up gets you a high-power one for #2. I thought that was interesting. Dunno the regulatory situation around it, though.
    - bradknowles 8y ago
      Dual-flush toilets have been used in Europe for many years. When we moved there in 1998, we had an apartment that was kitted out with one that looked to be more than a decade old at the time, and it worked fine. I can confirm that modern Toto toilets are also a wonder of engineering. My wife and I are planning on replacing all the old toilets in the house, now that we have a Toto downstairs. Not only does it use much less water, it can also handle way more ... material ... than anything else I have ever seen. Worth the money at ten times the price. And yes, you can get Toto toilets that also do the dual-flush.