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Myth Busting Banksy
- yAnonymous 8y agoBanksy is a sellout.
- nuclx 8y agoYes he is. Got no street cred.
- have_faith 8y agoMaybe he doesn't want or need street cred? He's just doing his thing.
- hazz99 8y agoWhy is it bad to make a profit from your artwork?
- justtopost 8y agoIt is not, but their whole act has been street art, and purposely making their art hard to obtain, and implying an anticapitolist bent. However its all kind of an act now, with hard to obtain art just raising the percived value. Brilliant, but contrary to the image many have of them.
- gcatalfamo 8y agoWell for being against capitalistic culture, the Banksy movement acts pretty capitalistic...I guess it's not about making a well-deserved profit, but more about being incoherent with your message.
- hazz99 8y agoImo you can be against capitalism, but you still live in a capitalist society and need to somewhat conform to it in order to live. It's not like Britain is going to become communist any time soon.
- Nasrudith 8y agoReally at this point it has highlighted it is impossible to be mainstream and maintain the status quo. When you start putting out unique works on random buildings and people are willing to pay enough to cut out the wall and replace it for a windfall it is fundamentally impossible. The subversion is fundamentally lost. Even doing something akin to putting Gitmo in Disneyland to force people to confront crimes committed in their name while trying to escape would see it scavenged and sold. Given a choice between making random landowners richer and himself it becomes clear why.
- yAnonymous 8y agoIt isn't - except if one of your main messages is being against capitalism. His credibility is now zero.
- giarc 8y agoDid he own the painting prior to the sale, or was it a private collector?
- xefer 8y agoI like Banksy's work well enough, but the thing that has always bothered me about his persona is the collusion in the art and media world to maintain his supposed anonymity. I simply can't believe that there aren't large numbers of people who know exactly who he is, so why is he privileged by the media in this way?
- icebraining 8y agoI simply can't believe that there aren't large numbers of people who know exactly who he is Why not?
- berkes 8y agoIndeed, I consider it quite likely this is possible. News and media are famous for copying and not doing own research. A logic result is that media keep copying "the anonymous Banksy" as some meme. And that hardly any budget is released to actually research the person behind the name. Defending your anonimity against the very few journalists that do their own research is probably much simpler than defending it against the supposed "hordes of media". We've seen this with "Satoshi" too. And even worldfamous artists like Daft Punk keep a reasonable privacy this way.
- Klathmon 8y agoWell Daft Punk are different. They are very well known, and they don't hide their identities any more than a voice actor for a cartoon is hiding their identity. Satoshi as far as I know is still unknown, and while there are some pretty good guesses, they will most likely never be more than that.
- rkeene2 8y agoPossibly of interest to you: https://medium.com/cryptomuse/how-the-nsa-caught-satoshi-nakamoto-868affcef595 https://medium.com/cryptomuse/how-the-nsa-caught-satoshi-nak...
- justtopost 8y ago
- justtopost 8y agoAt no point did the author prove that the frame was the same one in the video. I really had a hard time reading after that. The sideways xacto blades would have trouble cutting canvas, even preshredded, at that angle. While the rest seems plausable, no further facts are offered save for "maybe 38" cuts maybe matching with the frame shown hastily in his vid. I was really hoping for something more concrete than the same pontificating.
- topmonk 8y agoThe one question I had, which the article didn't go into, was shredding only half the painting intended, or was it a malfunction?
- rhplus 8y agoDefinitely intentional. The owner purchased a piece of performance art, one that involved Banksy, his entourage, a (probably complicit) Sotheby's and millions of comments and reactions on the internet. The half-shredded painting is integral to the longevity of the performance. If it's ever displayed in a gallery, you can guarantee that there will be a constant video loop of the auction and internet reactions playing next to it.
- joezydeco 8y agoThe new owner also can't sell off the individual strips.
- jansan 8y agoIntention. It stopped at a perfect point.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- topmonk 8y agoI didn't agree with you at first, but after seeing the painting out of its frame, I think you are right: https://1fuzz.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/art-owner-shredded-banksy-painting-1fuzz-com-1.jpg https://1fuzz.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/art-owner-shred...
- mrleiter 8y agoI wonder, like mentioned elsewhere in the art community, if this stunt will have the opposite assumed effect: that the artwork will be more valuable now than it was before. Since now it is a "double-Banksy" in a sense. And if others and I can think of that outcome, most definitely so can Banksy. And maybe that is the real critique of the artworld: That even if you destroy the art, the destroyed art is still worth millions. Simply because the art has detached itself from its meaning and origin, and has tilted towards who made the art.
- rhplus 8y agoThe Banksy art incubator just came up with a novel strategy for maximizing exposure of a startup artwork. MAU metric through the roof before IPO. Early investors very happy.
- SiempreViernes 8y agoWell, it wasn't destroyed really. Whether intentional or not, the fact that it stopped halfway trough leaves a very symbolic work. Had it actually shredded all the way trough and spit out 38 strips it wouldn't have been such an boost for the value.
- grepthisab 8y agoOr had it been a cross cut shredder. :)
- toast0 8y agoI'm not up on my Greek prefixes, but had the shreading completed it would become a 38-ptic, and you could fill a large sized wall with it. It wouldn't be as cool as stopped half way, but the halfway through image wouldn't be in people's minds to know what they were missing, either.
- jansan 8y agoIf I was an art collector I would pay much more for the artwork now, for the simple reasons that 1. The girl with a balloon print was not the only one of its kind. There are other variations. It was not so unique before. 2. This is the only one, the first one, even the first (prominent?) artwork that "destroyed itself" 3. It is still an artwork. It did not destroy itself completely, but stopped in the middle of the destruction process. Doesn't it look great now, sticking only half outside the frame? Any museum of contemporary art would die for having this. And only this, not a similar one or the next one that destroys itself.
- kijin 8y agoI disagree with the author's conclusion that Sotheby's will lose any credibility from this incident. Modern art is crazy. A painting that shreds itself is pretty mundane by contemporary standards. If the shredding was an integral part of the work as intended by the artist, then Sotheby's has done a great job showcasing all the features of the work. Now that they've demonstrated an ability to handle unconventional works like this in a controller manner, I wouldn't be surprised if even more elaborate contraptions that blur the line between art and technology begin to come up for auction at Sotheby's. Besides, the shredded painting will likely fetch a much higher price if it ever comes back to the auction.
- IIAOPSW 8y agoDoes Sotheby's have an API? I got some stupid easy ideas and in the worst case no one buys it. "This balloon inflates the more you bid it up. Eventually it pops. Its an allegory for the housing bubble"
- fjsolwmv 8y agoYou have to cultivate a ten year reputation in the art gossip community before you can make money at that. An artist's trendiness is a similar bubble.
- billpg 8y agoIf only you were famous. You could have made millions from that idea.
- gagege 8y agoHow does one get famous making art? Magic?
- WorkLifeBalance 8y agoThat reminds me of this work (2009) by artist Ellie Harrison who made a vending machine which dispensed snacks any time the word recession popped up on the BBC news feed: https://www.ellieharrison.com/vendingmachine/ https://www.ellieharrison.com/vendingmachine/
- agumonkey 8y agoNot long ago I was introduced to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blek_le_Rat https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blek_le_Rat who apparently shared a similar sense of style
- graycrow 8y agoI like this analysis from EEVBlog more: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SdKdQWhlNTY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SdKdQWhlNTY
- jansan 8y agoNice one. Here is the "Strip Box" video he showed at the end: https://vimeo.com/92609964 https://vimeo.com/92609964
- wheelie_boy 8y agoI liked this take on what it would be like living with banksy: https://medium.com/@electrolemon/the-year-of-living-with-banksy-f9e1774ec60b https://medium.com/@electrolemon/the-year-of-living-with-ban... There's only so much of his shtick that I can stomach.
- MisterTea 8y agoI doubt that article is real.
- wheelie_boy 8y agoBetween being written by a comedy writer and the unlikely scenario, it seemed clear to me that this was satire, poking fun at banksy's relentless shtick.
- wlll 8y agoThat seems far fetched, and also pretty entertaining. Far better than my old housemates who would fuck in the kitchen and throw knives when drunk.
- mfoy_ 8y agoThat's pretty funny, reminds me of Ayn Rand Reviews Children's Movies: https://www.newyorker.com/humor/daily-shouts/ayn-rand-reviews-childrens-movies https://www.newyorker.com/humor/daily-shouts/ayn-rand-review...
- jansan 8y agoI am not buying into the video posted by Bansky. The knives have an awkward angle, how are they supposed to cut? I think he added something else to the frame afterwards. Something like this banknote printing machine: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OE7qHz_cVew https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OE7qHz_cVew
- kalleboo 8y agoThe EEVBlog YouTube channel (someone else already linked it) covered the implausible shredding mechanism in the Banksy video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SdKdQWhlNTY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SdKdQWhlNTY In addition to the impossible angle, the position also does not fit a plausible paper path, and you can also see the curvature indicative of being stuck in the roller of a traditional shredder for days/weeks/months on the bottom of the paper coming out.
- jansan 8y agoMakes you wonder how the previous owner could have not noticed the shredder. "There is a slot at the bottom of my insanely valuable Bansky artwork's frame and I can see parts of a machinery through it, but it probably doesn't mean anything."
- eigenstuff 8y agoIt'd already been noted that the frame was unusually thick
- flycaliguy 8y agoThe video was made by Banksy. Why do people trust it?
- jstanley 8y agoDid you read TFA? The suggestion is that the artwork was partially pre-shredded, with the shreds hooked over the blades, and then it's just a case of pushing the rest of the piece through the blades. Like "dragging scissors through paper" once the cut is already started.
- radarsat1 8y ago> Score one for Banksy, though there are many other ways he could have protested if they wanted to make the point without benefiting financially from the protest. How did Banksy profit from this? The value went up after the sale.. The only other point in the article that I disagree on is the part about why Banksy's piece was auctioned last. He compares it to the random chance of being last and says that it is very very unlikely that it would randomly be last. As if the order is_ ever random in an auction. Obviously we need to know about the other pieces in the auction. Maybe the Banksy piece was last because it was expected to sell for the most, nothing to do with any gimmicks. Asserting that it's either "on purpose" or "completely random" is a bit silly, there's clearly something in-between.
- lisper 8y ago> How did Banksy profit from this? He got his name in all the papers.
- stinky613 8y agoHow does he profit from that?
- 20181005 8y agoThe increase in Banksy's cultural cachet means that his next pieces sold at auction will likely be valued much higher than they would have been if this had not been in all the papers. I can't say it's not a brilliant piece of art. It's quite similar to Duchamp's ready-mades[1] in that it's a critique of art itself. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fountain_(Duchamp)[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fountain_(Duchamp)[1]
- maxxxxx 8y agoHia other stuff will sell for more because his name is better known? There is almost always profit to be made from being in the news.
- gregoriol 8y agoIt's called PR
- gcthomas 8y agoI notice that the shredded portion doesn't line up with the part still in the frame in the photo. The top of the girl's head looks too far up and to the left to be part of the same picture.
- lisper 8y agoThat could just be perspective. The shredded portion is further back towards the wall, and the photo is taken at an angle.
- jansan 8y agoThat was my thinking, too, and it would indicate that the shredded and original picture are not one and the same. Thinking this further, if he actually used something like a banknote printing trick device, the whole process could be reversed at the next auction :)
- flycaliguy 8y agoLove this idea! I wonder if this thing is going to be x-rayed by the current owner though... Maybe he left a note in it to convince the owner to play along.
- hoopism 8y agoI did some measurements on stills and it appears to be well within the reason of lining up. Using a ruler and stills taken from same vantage point... the distance is very close.
- DrNuke 8y agoArtists like Banksy are well into their time, that’s why they are so successful once they achieve global exposure. Shredding your own work remotely at Sotheby’s just after their auction is as artistic as political you can get in the UK these days, that is just a stunt like the Brexit, the fake multiculturalism, the fake social elevator, the fake establishment and so on.
- class4behavior 8y agoIf Sotheby's was in on it, then the buyer must have been as well. Otherwise, they would open doors to a lawsuit.
- dmayle 8y agoThe very first point in the article is about the capability of a wireless device to last ten years on battery charge, and the argument in favor is based on current technology ("I'm amazed at how little power is used by the wireless processors I'm working on now.") The real question is about the wireless processors designed 13+ years ago (longer than the painting to allow time for it to hit production). This thing was supposedly designed and enabled before the iPhone was released. The author does not present a credible argument.
- jstanley 8y agoHe also points out that "Banksy's people" had physical access to the painting very shortly before the auction. I think it's much more likely that a battery was inserted at that time.
- giarc 8y agoI know nothing about the art world, but would "Pest Control" be given unsupervised access to the painting prior to the auction? Especially given the artist and his reputation.
- PhasmaFelis 8y agoThe processor comment is a bit irrelevant, but the argument is about the batteries, not the processor. Besides which, he immediately presents a couple of other theories.
- EpicEng 8y agoIt's unlikely this has been sitting for 12 years. EEV did a bit of an analysis: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SdKdQWhlNTY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SdKdQWhlNTY
- gregoriol 8y agoIf they (Sotheby's/security) let a device with metal, batteries and remote trigger in, how could one assume they won't let a bomb in there? If they did it while knowing what is inside, it's fun and stuff. If they let this kind of stuff in without checking, this would be very bad... they should be sued over lack of inspection (they are experts!) and lack of security by the buyers and persons who were in the room.
- jstanley 8y agoThe same way bombs don't get taken into almost any crowded place: the fact that vanishingly few people want to take bombs into crowded places.
- gregoriol 8y agoI mean: these are experts, they sell stuff valuated at millions of $, they must inspect what they sell. It's not about about security at first: it's more about if the thing is authentic, if the thing is in good shape, if it will not break during transport or display, how to store/hang it properly, ... After that, they must have been suspicious about the weight, the bottom hole, ... and must have done additional, more detailed checks, even a scanner to see what's inside. It's not like it was a simple piece of paper they had in hands, it's a million $ strange heavy thing. Anyway, it shows very bad about them if they didn't see what was "wrong" with this piece.
- jstanley 8y agoThey took it to "Banksy's people" to have it authenticated.
- PhasmaFelis 8y agoBecause searching bulky artwork is meaningless security theater unless you're also X-ray scanning every person who enters the building.
- gregoriol 8y ago
- bedhead 8y agoBanksy is like the Malcolm Gladwell of art. He's really good but crossing over into the world of pop culture has garnered an unwarranted amount of scorn. I like Banksy and I like Malcolm Gladwell, both are really good at what they do.
- specialist 8y agoHmmm. This comparison is really challenges me. I liken Gladwell to other mercenary concern trolls like David Brooks. But in my rush to defend Banksy... I realize I have no idea who signs his checks. His schtick could also be just another troll. Bread and circus to keep the hoi polloi complacent. Indeed, how could Banksy not be? Either by default or by design, result is the same. Thanks. I relish these types of conundrums.
- PhasmaFelis 8y agoI haven't seen anyone mention that, in the shredder video, the blades are all placed flat, parallel to the painting. I don't see how they could have cut anything in that orientation, unless the mechanism is tuned to score the paper by dragging it across the point. Or am I missing something?
- gagege 8y agoYeah, I assumed I must have missed a detail. Or Banksy is totally messing with us.
- hoopism 8y agoAn angled razor makes more sense (think about how you shave)... less of a chance that it gets jammed if the paper is sliding over an angled razor rather than vertical. EDIT: A deli slicer also a good example... it works on an angle... not like a chopsaw
- rossdavidh 8y agoThe point about it being too much of a coincidence that the Banksy piece was sold last, seems weak to me. Banksy was likely the most popularly known artist whose work was for sale, and it makes sense to me that they would put that last. A better analysis would have looked at how much all of the pieces sold for, as a proxy for fame. If lots of piece that sold earlier than Banksy's, sold for more, then that would be pretty suspicious. I'm guessing, though, that Banksy was the biggest name for sale, and I would not expect Sotheby's to put them for sale in a random order, but rather start with the lesser known artists/pieces first. Of course, I don't know the art auction world, and maybe it happens the other way, and you do the big names first, I don't know. But I also can't find out from reading this analysis. One thing I'm pretty sure of, is they don't just assign the order randomly.
- anotheryou 8y agoYou can totally hide a slot that is already open. A normal frame has some layering going on in the back anyways: https://www.universityproducts.com/pub/media/wysiwyg/how-to-images/framepackage.jpg https://www.universityproducts.com/pub/media/wysiwyg/how-to-... All it would take is a slot in the frame back and a bit more sturdy backing paper covering it. The backing paper that has to be not fixed on the bottom edge.
- stevewillows 8y agoIt was convenient that the piece was the last one for the night. However, Banky's piece did have the largest gain from ceiling estimate to sale price. It wouldn't surprise me if the Sotheby's staff knew of this potentially dramatic gap and decided to put it at the end of the night. Combine that with the potential of Banksy pulling a stunt like this, and placing it last seems to be the more conservative option for the lineup. % LOT PRICE ARTIST WORK 3.47% 67 1042000 Banksy Girl With Balloon 2.94% 66 1030000 Kaws Again And Again 2.42% 48 1450000 Georg Baselitz Kopfkissen 1.77% 29 1150000 Georg Baselitz Ohne Titel (Der Neue Typ) 1.71% 42 1450000 Lucio Fontana Concetto Spaziale, Forma