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Overall, I agree with your points, but I have some points of contention with some of the analysis. I don't think it's quite fair to include tax if you're not g

Overall, I agree with your points, but I have some points of contention with some of the analysis. I don't think it's quite fair to include tax if you're not going to include savings for things like health care. Furthermore, Toronto's housing market, while less expensive than Cali/NY, is still insane. I know you acknowledge this in passing, but Montreal's housing market is insanely affordable, and we've a great tech/uni scene. Immigration to Quebec, might be getting harder for non-Canadians w/ our new provincial gov't, however.

paxy 8y ago
Free healthcare is a standard benefit in the tech industry in the US. Even after deductibles and with heavy use, you're going to at the most end up with a couple thousand dollars in out-of-pocket costs.
docker_up 8y ago
There isn't much savings in terms of health care. In Ontario, if you're working you have to pay a health care tax that is similar to what an employee would pay at a Silicon Valley company. And then the health care is much worse in terms of responsiveness. For example, I have Kaiser, and my Canadians friends are envious at how quickly I get scheduled for procedures. My family and friends have had to wait months for some procedures or tests.
- f6e9ed793b 8y ago
  > In Ontario, if you're working you have to pay a health care tax that is similar to what an employee would pay at a Silicon Valley company. You must be comparing California monthly costs to Ontario yearly costs. Maximum Ontario annual premiums are $900.[1] To get equivalent coverage (by equivalent, I mean in terms of insurance value - as in, I won't have a $15,000 copay if I get into a serious accident) from Kaiser in Southern California (the "silver" plan) is about $750 per month for me and my wife. If you are covered through your employer (we both freelance), you might be getting fooled into thinking you are paying less money because your paychecks show a smaller number as "deducted," but that is because the rest is paid by your employer and is still part of your compensation. [1] https://www.ontario.ca/data/ontario-health-premium-rates https://www.ontario.ca/data/ontario-health-premium-rates
  - refurb 8y ago
    Don't forget prescription drug coverage in Ontario if you have to buy your own insurance. Hell, in BC, the gov't plan has a $4000 deductible if you make more than $100,000.
    - Scoundreller 8y ago
      Almost all professional employers include prescription drug coverage as a part of their standard benefits package. The $4k deductible in BC (which is similar in Ontario), provides catastrophic drug coverage for those that don't have drug coverage (e.g. contracts).
  - docker_up 8y ago
    I did say "what an employee would pay at a Silicon Valley company." I pay no monthly premiums, but if I added my wife, it's about $100/month. So you verified what I said above. And your point about being "fooled" is disingenuous. Canadians pay for their health care through their taxes, so the amount is much higher as well than the health care tax which is nominal.
- digianarchist 8y ago
  There’s no “health care tax” in Ontario.
  - Scoundreller 8y ago
    Sure there is. There is a "health care premium" on your tax return. If you don't pay it, you'll get charged with tax evasion. When the government announced it, they avoided the word "tax", but it absolutely is. Don't buy the gov's BS.
  - radford-neal 8y ago
    That's correct. There's something that the provincial government calls a health care tax, but it is actually just another tax, whose proceeds go into the general revenue pot, with no specific connection to health care. You have to pay it even if you are not eligible for provincial health benefits (due to insufficient residence time, for example).
otalp 8y ago
While Montreal does have very cheap(or at least non-insane) housing, jobs are harder to get and French is still a big thing as far as I understand: you need to know French well to fit in. Also the weather is more extreme. I think if you can land a good gig in Montreal and are good at learning a new language it would be the ideal place in Canada, but finding a good job is hard.
- dwild 8y ago
  > you need to know French well to fit in That's actually the opposite, at least in tech, you need to talk English. In both placed I worked we had to talk English because there was a few employees that didn't talk French at all.
stock_toaster 8y ago
As a non-Canadian, what about Calgary or Edmonton?

paxy 8y ago

Free healthcare is a standard benefit in the tech industry in the US. Even after deductibles and with heavy use, you're going to at the most end up with a couple thousand dollars in out-of-pocket costs.

docker_up 8y ago

There isn't much savings in terms of health care. In Ontario, if you're working you have to pay a health care tax that is similar to what an employee would pay at a Silicon Valley company. And then the health care is much worse in terms of responsiveness. For example, I have Kaiser, and my Canadians friends are envious at how quickly I get scheduled for procedures. My family and friends have had to wait months for some procedures or tests.

f6e9ed793b 8y ago
> In Ontario, if you're working you have to pay a health care tax that is similar to what an employee would pay at a Silicon Valley company. You must be comparing California monthly costs to Ontario yearly costs. Maximum Ontario annual premiums are $900.[1] To get equivalent coverage (by equivalent, I mean in terms of insurance value - as in, I won't have a $15,000 copay if I get into a serious accident) from Kaiser in Southern California (the "silver" plan) is about $750 per month for me and my wife. If you are covered through your employer (we both freelance), you might be getting fooled into thinking you are paying less money because your paychecks show a smaller number as "deducted," but that is because the rest is paid by your employer and is still part of your compensation. [1] https://www.ontario.ca/data/ontario-health-premium-rates https://www.ontario.ca/data/ontario-health-premium-rates
- refurb 8y ago
  Don't forget prescription drug coverage in Ontario if you have to buy your own insurance. Hell, in BC, the gov't plan has a $4000 deductible if you make more than $100,000.
  - Scoundreller 8y ago
    Almost all professional employers include prescription drug coverage as a part of their standard benefits package. The $4k deductible in BC (which is similar in Ontario), provides catastrophic drug coverage for those that don't have drug coverage (e.g. contracts).
- docker_up 8y ago
  I did say "what an employee would pay at a Silicon Valley company." I pay no monthly premiums, but if I added my wife, it's about $100/month. So you verified what I said above. And your point about being "fooled" is disingenuous. Canadians pay for their health care through their taxes, so the amount is much higher as well than the health care tax which is nominal.
digianarchist 8y ago
There’s no “health care tax” in Ontario.
- Scoundreller 8y ago
  Sure there is. There is a "health care premium" on your tax return. If you don't pay it, you'll get charged with tax evasion. When the government announced it, they avoided the word "tax", but it absolutely is. Don't buy the gov's BS.
- radford-neal 8y ago
  That's correct. There's something that the provincial government calls a health care tax, but it is actually just another tax, whose proceeds go into the general revenue pot, with no specific connection to health care. You have to pay it even if you are not eligible for provincial health benefits (due to insufficient residence time, for example).

otalp 8y ago

While Montreal does have very cheap(or at least non-insane) housing, jobs are harder to get and French is still a big thing as far as I understand: you need to know French well to fit in. Also the weather is more extreme. I think if you can land a good gig in Montreal and are good at learning a new language it would be the ideal place in Canada, but finding a good job is hard.

dwild 8y ago
> you need to know French well to fit in That's actually the opposite, at least in tech, you need to talk English. In both placed I worked we had to talk English because there was a few employees that didn't talk French at all.

stock_toaster 8y ago

As a non-Canadian, what about Calgary or Edmonton?