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I can attest to this. I have three friends who are preparing to migrate to Canada or Australia. Mind you, these are not the typical H1B workers from Infosys. Th

by Bhilai 8y ago

I can attest to this. I have three friends who are preparing to migrate to Canada or Australia. Mind you, these are not the typical H1B workers from Infosys. These are smart legitimate people with a masters degree who work at top tech companies. They have no hopes to get a permanent residency in US because of long queues. Renewing H1B is a big hassle. Surely its a big change to pick up your life up and move to a different country but its probably for the good considering the current administration's anti-immigrant stand and seemingly socially regressive and anti-science policies. This issue has been coming to a head for a while now. My friends at Apple and Microsoft tell me that the immigration woes are picking up heat internally and related questions are making an appearance at internal Q/A with senior management (Tim Cook) so it remains to be seen if tech companies would be able influence any policies.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
gnufied 8y ago
For first time ever I think - my Employer (again not an outsourcing firm) has started holding immigration Towh hall meetings for all employees on H1Bs. Its like getting called to principal office and you don't know why. The fear, uncertainty and doubt is very real among all immigrants afaict.
HumanDrivenDev 8y ago
I wish so badly I could trade places, as a conservative man stuck in a 'progressive' country with lower wages. Give me a great salary and Blumpffss 'regressive' US any day.
- sincerely 8y ago
  I mean...why can't you?
  - HumanDrivenDev 8y ago
    The same reason not every "I'm totally moving to canada/australia/new zealand/europe" liberal in the US can do so. Immigration laws.
    - __jochen__ 8y ago
      Unfortunately for you, your conservative peers in the US don't want foreigners like you to immigrate.
      - bdamm 8y ago
        I don't know why you're being downvoted. It's totally on point. And there's a subtle point too; conservatism reduces opportunity and there's not much evidence that American conservative values have anything to do with good American wages. In fact, on a state by state basis, the opposite is true.
        __jochen__ 8y ago
        I think one angle the parent may have intended is that immigration increases labour supply and thus depresses wages. This argument ignores the fact that immigration generally grows an economy and in many countries it's a critical driver. This goes doubly for highly skilled immigration - particularly in the tech industry. I've worked with extremely talented folks who'd come to the US from all over the world, raising the bar at the world's top tech companies. Anyone who's worked in these companies will tell you that it's the quality bar that's the biggest constraint on hiring. SV is a concentrator of technical talent - one of the reasons the ecosystem works so well (the other is access to capital). Beyond that, I'd find it surprising that progressive policy should depress wages - conservative economic stance typically weighs in favour of Capital. The ultimate irony of the parent post is that the values he strongly identifies with are those that thwart his dearest wish. Emblematic of the human condition?
    - pandapower2 8y ago
      I'm not even sure immigration laws have much to do with it. I would hazard a guess that the vast majority of people never get as far as finding out what the other country's immigration laws are.
  - pandapower2 8y ago
    I'm not the person you replied to but keep in mind that a lot of people talk about wanting to live in another country but never get around to actually doing anything about it. It doesn't matter what country you are currently in there will be people who want to live somewhere else. Some will get it done but most won't take any steps towards making it happen.
briandear 8y ago
Why don’t they get an E2 visa which is designed for immigration for those with high skills and advanced degrees? An H visa is a temporary, non-immigrant visa and was never intended as a path to a green card. Frustration around long queues for green cards for H visas doesn’t make any sense because that is, by its very definition, a non-immigrant visa. Expecting permanent residency from a non-immigrant visa is no different than expecting a French tourist visa to lead to residency.
- briandear 8y ago
  Why is this downvoted? Was anything in or untrue? H visas are temporary, non-immigrant visas. https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/employment/temporary-worker-visas.html https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/employme...
  - TechieKid 8y ago
    It's downvoted because you, like your profile says, are "opinionated, inconsistent, irrelevant, irreverent and incontrovertible", and regardless of the number of times you are told that you are wrong and that H1Bs are dual-intent visas, keep parroting the same trash in every immigration related thread. Please quit proliferating nonsense untruths. And here, for future reference, because short of a citation of the law, and probably even then, you won't quit spreading junk knowledge: Better reference: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1184 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1184 b) Presumption of status; written waiver Every alien (other than a nonimmigrant described in subparagraph (L) or (V) of section 1101(a)(15) of this title, and other than a nonimmigrant described in any provision of section 1101(a)(15)(H)(i) of this title except subclause (b1) of such section) shall be presumed to be an immigrant until he establishes to the satisfaction of the consular officer, at the time of application for a visa, and the immigration officers, at the time of application for admission, that he is entitled to a nonimmigrant status under section 1101(a)(15) of this title.
    - woud420 8y ago
      Without getting in the history of the parent poster, he's not wrong. H1B is a temporary (non-immigrant) visa which allows dual intent. Yes, most people on dual intent visas eventually petition for a green card but I think it's unfair to qualify his post as "junk knowledge". Same thing with L-1A and O-1. Source : https://www.uscis.gov/working-united-states/temporary-nonimmigrant-workers https://www.uscis.gov/working-united-states/temporary-nonimm...
dominotw 8y ago
> preparing to migrate to Canada or Australia. I know lot of ppl who have been dreaming of this for years but money and opportunity here in US is too good to pass up. 99% of ppl on H1B are not starting companies. Most ppl just don't have the appetite to slash their income by half. "preparing" doesn't count as a example.
- 3pt14159 8y ago
  The half-of-salary thing is a bit rich. Tech people unknowingly push up their second or third sigma downside in America and cost of living is hard to compare. In America you're more likely to get violently harmed. More likely to become truly poor. More likely to develop life-long medical conditions. Don't have actuarially balanced government pension (SS accounting is off book, CPP is fully funded). Higher net-debt-to-GDP. Broken political system. It's a pretty long list of nice-to-haves up here. If you're in the class of programmer than can half your salary by moving to Canada you're still going to be earning at the very least $120k in Toronto, and that's all that shitty. I continue to choose to live in a common wealth (in the old sense of the term) for a reason.
  - sheepmullet 8y ago
    > In America you're more likely to get violently harmed As far as I can tell this is not really true. There are small areas in the US with extreme violence and it skews the overall statistics. > More likely to become truly poor Again I’m not sure this is true for a programmer - every year I save 2-3 years worth of living costs. > earning at the very least $120k in Toronto What is the cost of a decent 3-4 bedroom house in Toronto fairly close to work? If it’s anything like Vancouver then $120k is not enough.
  - martin_iden 8y ago
    I really like Toronto, but cost of living is high (one of the largest housing bubbles in the world, high taxes), salaries are low and jobs (not only in tech) are scarce. In the States you won't find engineers, doctors, accountants working in the supermarkets/starbucks. Go to any store in Richmond Hill/North York and you will see plenty. There is an ugly truth that people don't like to discuss much, Canada accepts too many professional immigrants relative to the number of available jobs. The proportion of underemployed immigrants is astounding (people who either have to work in unrelated fields or a few levels below their skills). Most of what you mentioned is true, but it's also true that in the States it's much easier to make a living or have a fulfilling career for a professional.
chrisweekly 8y ago
>"Mind you, these are not the typical H1B workers from Infosys. These are smart legitimate people..." That's a pretty broad brush you're smearing with there, amigo.

by Bhilai 8y ago

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

gnufied 8y ago

For first time ever I think - my Employer (again not an outsourcing firm) has started holding immigration Towh hall meetings for all employees on H1Bs. Its like getting called to principal office and you don't know why. The fear, uncertainty and doubt is very real among all immigrants afaict.

HumanDrivenDev 8y ago

I wish so badly I could trade places, as a conservative man stuck in a 'progressive' country with lower wages. Give me a great salary and Blumpffss 'regressive' US any day.

sincerely 8y ago
I mean...why can't you?
- HumanDrivenDev 8y ago
  The same reason not every "I'm totally moving to canada/australia/new zealand/europe" liberal in the US can do so. Immigration laws.
  - __jochen__ 8y ago
    Unfortunately for you, your conservative peers in the US don't want foreigners like you to immigrate.
    - bdamm 8y ago
      I don't know why you're being downvoted. It's totally on point. And there's a subtle point too; conservatism reduces opportunity and there's not much evidence that American conservative values have anything to do with good American wages. In fact, on a state by state basis, the opposite is true.
      - __jochen__ 8y ago
        I think one angle the parent may have intended is that immigration increases labour supply and thus depresses wages. This argument ignores the fact that immigration generally grows an economy and in many countries it's a critical driver. This goes doubly for highly skilled immigration - particularly in the tech industry. I've worked with extremely talented folks who'd come to the US from all over the world, raising the bar at the world's top tech companies. Anyone who's worked in these companies will tell you that it's the quality bar that's the biggest constraint on hiring. SV is a concentrator of technical talent - one of the reasons the ecosystem works so well (the other is access to capital). Beyond that, I'd find it surprising that progressive policy should depress wages - conservative economic stance typically weighs in favour of Capital. The ultimate irony of the parent post is that the values he strongly identifies with are those that thwart his dearest wish. Emblematic of the human condition?
  - pandapower2 8y ago
    I'm not even sure immigration laws have much to do with it. I would hazard a guess that the vast majority of people never get as far as finding out what the other country's immigration laws are.
- pandapower2 8y ago
  I'm not the person you replied to but keep in mind that a lot of people talk about wanting to live in another country but never get around to actually doing anything about it. It doesn't matter what country you are currently in there will be people who want to live somewhere else. Some will get it done but most won't take any steps towards making it happen.

briandear 8y ago

Why don’t they get an E2 visa which is designed for immigration for those with high skills and advanced degrees? An H visa is a temporary, non-immigrant visa and was never intended as a path to a green card. Frustration around long queues for green cards for H visas doesn’t make any sense because that is, by its very definition, a non-immigrant visa. Expecting permanent residency from a non-immigrant visa is no different than expecting a French tourist visa to lead to residency.

briandear 8y ago
Why is this downvoted? Was anything in or untrue? H visas are temporary, non-immigrant visas. https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/employment/temporary-worker-visas.html https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/employme...
- TechieKid 8y ago
  It's downvoted because you, like your profile says, are "opinionated, inconsistent, irrelevant, irreverent and incontrovertible", and regardless of the number of times you are told that you are wrong and that H1Bs are dual-intent visas, keep parroting the same trash in every immigration related thread. Please quit proliferating nonsense untruths. And here, for future reference, because short of a citation of the law, and probably even then, you won't quit spreading junk knowledge: Better reference: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1184 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1184 b) Presumption of status; written waiver Every alien (other than a nonimmigrant described in subparagraph (L) or (V) of section 1101(a)(15) of this title, and other than a nonimmigrant described in any provision of section 1101(a)(15)(H)(i) of this title except subclause (b1) of such section) shall be presumed to be an immigrant until he establishes to the satisfaction of the consular officer, at the time of application for a visa, and the immigration officers, at the time of application for admission, that he is entitled to a nonimmigrant status under section 1101(a)(15) of this title.
  - woud420 8y ago
    Without getting in the history of the parent poster, he's not wrong. H1B is a temporary (non-immigrant) visa which allows dual intent. Yes, most people on dual intent visas eventually petition for a green card but I think it's unfair to qualify his post as "junk knowledge". Same thing with L-1A and O-1. Source : https://www.uscis.gov/working-united-states/temporary-nonimmigrant-workers https://www.uscis.gov/working-united-states/temporary-nonimm...

dominotw 8y ago

> preparing to migrate to Canada or Australia. I know lot of ppl who have been dreaming of this for years but money and opportunity here in US is too good to pass up. 99% of ppl on H1B are not starting companies. Most ppl just don't have the appetite to slash their income by half. "preparing" doesn't count as a example.

3pt14159 8y ago
The half-of-salary thing is a bit rich. Tech people unknowingly push up their second or third sigma downside in America and cost of living is hard to compare. In America you're more likely to get violently harmed. More likely to become truly poor. More likely to develop life-long medical conditions. Don't have actuarially balanced government pension (SS accounting is off book, CPP is fully funded). Higher net-debt-to-GDP. Broken political system. It's a pretty long list of nice-to-haves up here. If you're in the class of programmer than can half your salary by moving to Canada you're still going to be earning at the very least $120k in Toronto, and that's all that shitty. I continue to choose to live in a common wealth (in the old sense of the term) for a reason.
- sheepmullet 8y ago
  > In America you're more likely to get violently harmed As far as I can tell this is not really true. There are small areas in the US with extreme violence and it skews the overall statistics. > More likely to become truly poor Again I’m not sure this is true for a programmer - every year I save 2-3 years worth of living costs. > earning at the very least $120k in Toronto What is the cost of a decent 3-4 bedroom house in Toronto fairly close to work? If it’s anything like Vancouver then $120k is not enough.
- martin_iden 8y ago
  I really like Toronto, but cost of living is high (one of the largest housing bubbles in the world, high taxes), salaries are low and jobs (not only in tech) are scarce. In the States you won't find engineers, doctors, accountants working in the supermarkets/starbucks. Go to any store in Richmond Hill/North York and you will see plenty. There is an ugly truth that people don't like to discuss much, Canada accepts too many professional immigrants relative to the number of available jobs. The proportion of underemployed immigrants is astounding (people who either have to work in unrelated fields or a few levels below their skills). Most of what you mentioned is true, but it's also true that in the States it's much easier to make a living or have a fulfilling career for a professional.

chrisweekly 8y ago

>"Mind you, these are not the typical H1B workers from Infosys. These are smart legitimate people..." That's a pretty broad brush you're smearing with there, amigo.