4 ms·

Canada's aggressively merit based immigration policy has clear advantages in terms of allowing talent in. That said Canadian tech firms still pay way too little

Canada's aggressively merit based immigration policy has clear advantages in terms of allowing talent in. That said Canadian tech firms still pay way too little.

GFischer 8y ago
Indeed, the reason I don't consider moving to Canada is that the areas where I'd like to live are too expensive and salaries too low for the high cost of living, mostly housing (I already can't purchase a house where I live but at least I can hope to, I'd be priced out even worse in Canada).
- refurb 8y ago
  Toronto and Vancouver housing prices aren't that much lower than the Bay area. However, it does look like the trend is downward in those two cities at the moment.
sbierwagen 8y ago
Some might draw a connection between Canada's open doors policy for skilled immigrants, and the low salaries paid.
- mywittyname 8y ago
  I don't think it's the primary reason. The Canadian tech sector doesn't make nearly as much money as their US counterpart does. The country has very few dedicated software companies, and none the caliber of the FAAMGs. For comparison, the largest software company in Canada by revenue earns $1.7B, Google is in the neighborhood of $120B a year. Google/Microsoft/Facebook/Apple/etc are each individually orders of magnitude larger than the entire Canadian software industry combined. Chances are, that most metro areas in the US have a technology company larger than the biggest Canadian tech companies. If Canada went from having a billion dollar tech sector to having a trillion dollar one, then salaries for engineers would explode.
  - jonny_eh 8y ago
    > Google/Microsoft/Facebook/Apple/etc are each individually orders of magnitude larger than the entire Canadian software industry combined We just need one of those companies to get fed up and move their HQ north. Canada's tech sector would double overnight. I can even see that happening if the next couple US elections go the wrong way.
    - martin_iden 8y ago
      Fed up with what? They care about nothing but making money. It's very infantile to think otherwise.
      - xaranke 8y ago
        Which is why getting an equally-skilled workforce in the same timezone at a fraction of the cost would be a huge selling point, would it not? Add to that less friction around growing this workforce by bringing in new talent from abroad and it seems like a slam dunk.
  - qaq 8y ago
    Amazon and Microsoft already are moving people to Canada if they can't secure H1B as far as I understand.
mywittyname 8y ago
Also timelines. I don't have first-hand experience, but the people I've talked to said they had citizenship within two years.
- yhager 8y ago
  That sounds way too short. Until a few years ago you needed to be a resident (=reside) three years before you can apply (which takes about another year). I think now it's four + application processing time.
  - techie128 8y ago
    Canada requires you to be a PR holder and in the country for 1095 days in the past 5 years to apply for citizenship.
    - raquo 8y ago
      Up to 365 of those can be accounted for while being a temporary resident (on a work or study visa) on a "1 day for 2 days" basis. You also need to actually be in Canada all those days. Any day that you're outside delays your citizenship by a day. Then it takes about a year to process your citizenship application. Overall, it's still much faster than most anywhere else.
      - Scoundreller 8y ago
        > Up to 365 of those can be accounted for while being a temporary resident (on a work or study visa) on a "1 day for 2 days" basis. I think it's more like every day that you are physically present in Canada pre-PR counts as 0.5 days. There's no such thing as a "tourist" under Canadian immigration law: you get a temporary resident visa/status/permit for your temporary "tourist" visits. I think the part-day test applies (if you arrive in Canada at 10PM, even though you were only present for 2 hours, it counts as a half day).
  - digianarchist 8y ago
    It’s 3 years but applications are taking 12 months to process so 4 years total.
microcolonel 8y ago
Sadly the U.S.'s affirmative action lottery based immigration policy is defended thoroughly by (D), so it's probably not going anywhere; especially since merit-based immigration (even to the limited extent that Canada's system could be called that [knowing personally how it sometimes turns out, it sure ain't perfect]) has been successfully associated with (R) at this point, and (D) isn't in the mood to even entertain anything that (R) might accept (and at this point, it seems that (R) isn't willing to support it unanimously either, so it may not get off the ground any time soon).
nraynaud 8y ago
I'd say also the stability and non-stupidity of their immigration laws is an advantage too. I am always correcting myself when I work with USCIS: they are not stupid and slow, they are deliberately malevolent.

Canada's aggressively merit based immigration policy has clear advantages in terms of allowing talent in. That said Canadian tech firms still pay way too little.

GFischer 8y ago

Indeed, the reason I don't consider moving to Canada is that the areas where I'd like to live are too expensive and salaries too low for the high cost of living, mostly housing (I already can't purchase a house where I live but at least I can hope to, I'd be priced out even worse in Canada).

refurb 8y ago
Toronto and Vancouver housing prices aren't that much lower than the Bay area. However, it does look like the trend is downward in those two cities at the moment.

sbierwagen 8y ago

Some might draw a connection between Canada's open doors policy for skilled immigrants, and the low salaries paid.

mywittyname 8y ago
I don't think it's the primary reason. The Canadian tech sector doesn't make nearly as much money as their US counterpart does. The country has very few dedicated software companies, and none the caliber of the FAAMGs. For comparison, the largest software company in Canada by revenue earns $1.7B, Google is in the neighborhood of $120B a year. Google/Microsoft/Facebook/Apple/etc are each individually orders of magnitude larger than the entire Canadian software industry combined. Chances are, that most metro areas in the US have a technology company larger than the biggest Canadian tech companies. If Canada went from having a billion dollar tech sector to having a trillion dollar one, then salaries for engineers would explode.
- jonny_eh 8y ago
  > Google/Microsoft/Facebook/Apple/etc are each individually orders of magnitude larger than the entire Canadian software industry combined We just need one of those companies to get fed up and move their HQ north. Canada's tech sector would double overnight. I can even see that happening if the next couple US elections go the wrong way.
  - martin_iden 8y ago
    Fed up with what? They care about nothing but making money. It's very infantile to think otherwise.
    - xaranke 8y ago
      Which is why getting an equally-skilled workforce in the same timezone at a fraction of the cost would be a huge selling point, would it not? Add to that less friction around growing this workforce by bringing in new talent from abroad and it seems like a slam dunk.
- qaq 8y ago
  Amazon and Microsoft already are moving people to Canada if they can't secure H1B as far as I understand.

mywittyname 8y ago

Also timelines. I don't have first-hand experience, but the people I've talked to said they had citizenship within two years.

yhager 8y ago
That sounds way too short. Until a few years ago you needed to be a resident (=reside) three years before you can apply (which takes about another year). I think now it's four + application processing time.
- techie128 8y ago
  Canada requires you to be a PR holder and in the country for 1095 days in the past 5 years to apply for citizenship.
  - raquo 8y ago
    Up to 365 of those can be accounted for while being a temporary resident (on a work or study visa) on a "1 day for 2 days" basis. You also need to actually be in Canada all those days. Any day that you're outside delays your citizenship by a day. Then it takes about a year to process your citizenship application. Overall, it's still much faster than most anywhere else.
    - Scoundreller 8y ago
      > Up to 365 of those can be accounted for while being a temporary resident (on a work or study visa) on a "1 day for 2 days" basis. I think it's more like every day that you are physically present in Canada pre-PR counts as 0.5 days. There's no such thing as a "tourist" under Canadian immigration law: you get a temporary resident visa/status/permit for your temporary "tourist" visits. I think the part-day test applies (if you arrive in Canada at 10PM, even though you were only present for 2 hours, it counts as a half day).
- digianarchist 8y ago
  It’s 3 years but applications are taking 12 months to process so 4 years total.

microcolonel 8y ago

Sadly the U.S.'s affirmative action lottery based immigration policy is defended thoroughly by (D), so it's probably not going anywhere; especially since merit-based immigration (even to the limited extent that Canada's system could be called that [knowing personally how it sometimes turns out, it sure ain't perfect]) has been successfully associated with (R) at this point, and (D) isn't in the mood to even entertain anything that (R) might accept (and at this point, it seems that (R) isn't willing to support it unanimously either, so it may not get off the ground any time soon).

nraynaud 8y ago

I'd say also the stability and non-stupidity of their immigration laws is an advantage too. I am always correcting myself when I work with USCIS: they are not stupid and slow, they are deliberately malevolent.