4 ms·

I made the mistake of staying in a hotel in the Tenderloin district the first time I visited SF. As a European who has visited many different countries on mult

I made the mistake of staying in a hotel in the Tenderloin district the first time I visited SF. As a European who has visited many different countries on multiple continents (including time spent living in NY and London), I was truly shocked. It wasn't just the filth though - rather the shocking part is the contrast of such filth/destitution juxtaposed on a background of prosperity, and the way SFers almost nonchalantly accept it as 'normal'.

dsfyu404ed 8y ago
Rest assured, Americans from 49 other states find it equally unsettling.
- wallace_f 8y ago
  SF is as bad as I have seen, but many other US cities have scary homeless scenes. No other country in the world that I've been to have I seen this phenomenon. It's similar to no-go zones in American cities. Everyone just pretends it doesn't exist.
  - crooked-v 8y ago
    It sounds like you're trying to argue for some weird conspiracy theory. There are dangerous areas in US cities, but that's not the same as the (generally mythical) idea of "no-go zones".
    - tunap 8y ago
      It's no conspiracy, it's a racket called "gentrification". The hoods get cleaned up, some naive, young professionals buy in @ inflated prices & then the sun goes down & everything not bolted down is stolen/destroyed. Then there's the break-ins, muggings & murders, but we don't like to talk too much about those aspects.
    - wallace_f 8y ago
      Conspiracy? What? First day of work I can remember three different people told me "dont ever on go the other side of the highway; dont even drive through it." First month of uni I unknowingly drove into the wrong neighborhood and stopped at a park. As soon as I turned off the engine and got out a group of people that were playing basketball started pointing at me and running at me. I dont think they wanted to introduce themselves in a friendly way. Later that semester, my friend wondered drunk into that neighborhood and was sucker punched and robbed of his wallet and cell phone. Funny you call this some conspiracy? I know it's not PC, but conspiracy? Really?
  - BlackjackCF 8y ago
    Yup, I've actually seen this in most of the major metropolitan areas of the US.
- yellowapple 8y ago
  As do those of us Californians who didn't originally hail from San Francisco.
nradov 8y ago
Parts of San Jose are equally bad now. But the homeless camps there are mostly along the Guadalupe River where tourists and residents don't typically visit. Out of sight, out of mind.
bliblah 8y ago
I'm going to be blunt; there is no reason for there to be so much HUMAN SHIT on the ground. Just straight up HUMAN SHIT. I have gone to countries all over the world, and even in the most desolate and rural areas there was an unspoken rule of not shitting in the streets. Urination is one thing but having to keep a lookout for human shit is just...I felt like i was taking crazy pills!
- dang 8y ago
  Can you please stop using uppercase for emphasis in HN comments? This is in the site guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.
closeparen 8y ago
Not just normal, essential to the character of the city, and the freedom and human dignity of the people living in it. The Tenderloin’s status quo is vigorously protected by a large and passionate activist community.
- yellowapple 8y ago
  There is no "human dignity" in the Tenderloin. If rampant homelessness and poverty is "essential to the character of the city", then that only goes to show that the character of this city is a shithole. I've only been living here for two months (a few blocks north of Tenderloin). I already want out at the earliest opportunity. Why anyone voluntarily lives here is beyond me.
- louisswiss 8y ago
  > essential to the character of the city, and the freedom and human dignity of the people living in it. I find that difficult to believe. There is a central district in Copenhagen, Denmark, for example which also 'allows' the use of drugs, homelessness etc. As fair as I'm aware, police don't even enter this neighbourhood unless a serious crime (eg murder) takes place. Yet it's clean, friendly, welcoming and often visited by tourists. Definitely no needles or faeces visible anywhere. I don't see why the Tenderloin should necessarily be any worse than this.

dsfyu404ed 8y ago

Rest assured, Americans from 49 other states find it equally unsettling.

wallace_f 8y ago
SF is as bad as I have seen, but many other US cities have scary homeless scenes. No other country in the world that I've been to have I seen this phenomenon. It's similar to no-go zones in American cities. Everyone just pretends it doesn't exist.
- crooked-v 8y ago
  It sounds like you're trying to argue for some weird conspiracy theory. There are dangerous areas in US cities, but that's not the same as the (generally mythical) idea of "no-go zones".
  - tunap 8y ago
    It's no conspiracy, it's a racket called "gentrification". The hoods get cleaned up, some naive, young professionals buy in @ inflated prices & then the sun goes down & everything not bolted down is stolen/destroyed. Then there's the break-ins, muggings & murders, but we don't like to talk too much about those aspects.
  - wallace_f 8y ago
    Conspiracy? What? First day of work I can remember three different people told me "dont ever on go the other side of the highway; dont even drive through it." First month of uni I unknowingly drove into the wrong neighborhood and stopped at a park. As soon as I turned off the engine and got out a group of people that were playing basketball started pointing at me and running at me. I dont think they wanted to introduce themselves in a friendly way. Later that semester, my friend wondered drunk into that neighborhood and was sucker punched and robbed of his wallet and cell phone. Funny you call this some conspiracy? I know it's not PC, but conspiracy? Really?
- BlackjackCF 8y ago
  Yup, I've actually seen this in most of the major metropolitan areas of the US.
yellowapple 8y ago
As do those of us Californians who didn't originally hail from San Francisco.

nradov 8y ago

Parts of San Jose are equally bad now. But the homeless camps there are mostly along the Guadalupe River where tourists and residents don't typically visit. Out of sight, out of mind.

bliblah 8y ago

I'm going to be blunt; there is no reason for there to be so much HUMAN SHIT on the ground. Just straight up HUMAN SHIT. I have gone to countries all over the world, and even in the most desolate and rural areas there was an unspoken rule of not shitting in the streets. Urination is one thing but having to keep a lookout for human shit is just...I felt like i was taking crazy pills!

dang 8y ago
Can you please stop using uppercase for emphasis in HN comments? This is in the site guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.

closeparen 8y ago

Not just normal, essential to the character of the city, and the freedom and human dignity of the people living in it. The Tenderloin’s status quo is vigorously protected by a large and passionate activist community.

yellowapple 8y ago
There is no "human dignity" in the Tenderloin. If rampant homelessness and poverty is "essential to the character of the city", then that only goes to show that the character of this city is a shithole. I've only been living here for two months (a few blocks north of Tenderloin). I already want out at the earliest opportunity. Why anyone voluntarily lives here is beyond me.
louisswiss 8y ago
> essential to the character of the city, and the freedom and human dignity of the people living in it. I find that difficult to believe. There is a central district in Copenhagen, Denmark, for example which also 'allows' the use of drugs, homelessness etc. As fair as I'm aware, police don't even enter this neighbourhood unless a serious crime (eg murder) takes place. Yet it's clean, friendly, welcoming and often visited by tourists. Definitely no needles or faeces visible anywhere. I don't see why the Tenderloin should necessarily be any worse than this.