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Life on the Dirtiest Block in San Francisco
- a2tech 8y agoLax homeless laws+unreasonable apartment costs+temperate weather=filthy streets filled with feces and homeless people.
- matthewmacleod 8y agoWhat are "lax homeless laws"?
- vowelless 8y agoA euphemism some people use to partly blame the victim.
- AllegedAlec 8y agoI don't think it's unreasonable to demand that there are laws against people shitting in the streets and leaving infected drug needles all over the place and that these laws are also acted upon by law enforcement.
- jefflombardjr 8y agoThe problem with this in my opinion, is at least what I've seen in Portland is they arrest the person, take them to jail, and when they're released they just go and do it again. The only thing this accomplishes is putting a strain on the court system. If they had some sort of alternative to 'catch and release' like a recovery program or prison diversion program. 100% agree with you. The law isn't enforceable as it stands now and throwing a bunch of police/extra courts/extra incarceration centers isn't really going to attack the problem at the source.
- crooked-v 8y agoI would suspect the former part of such a law would be immediately suppressed by the judiciary unless the city actually built enough well-serviced public bathrooms for everyone before it went into effect.
- bruceb 8y agoPeople should not defecate in the streets yes. But hard to tell people not to poop when they don't have nearby bathrooms to do their business.
- nailer 8y agoThe article mentioned the city has build 5 public bathrooms in the area
- matthewmacleod 8y agoUltimately, someone who is in a position where they're defecating in the street and discarding used needles isn't likely to be in a position where they'll be engaging positively with law enforcement. That kind of thing needs to be treated as the public health problem that it is, with extensive society-wide initiatives to prevent people getting into those situations, and to help them get out once they're in. Law enforcement can play a part in that for sure, but until there's a clear programme it doesn't do much to alleviate the problem in the long term.
- AllegedAlec 8y agoAnd in the mean time the city gets less and less habitable.
- matthewmacleod 8y agoRight, but the way to fix that isn't "throw more law enforcement at the problem".
- AllegedAlec 8y agoI don't know. I think getting them off the streets is a fairly high prio thing to do, even if it's just by putting them in prison temporarily while a better option is prepared. Yeah, the homeless are victims of the situation, but so are the inhabitants of SF. They deserve a place to live where they do not have to be afraid of being assaulted by a homeless man, having their children tripping over infected drug paraphernalia, or their city being a hotbed of disease due to a large population doing their business on the streets.
- goliatone 8y agoI would agree, but then also the people who have been living in SF and are not part of the tech economy also deserve not having to worry about their rent doubling or being kicked out to the streets and put in a situation where homelessness is a very real prospect.
- stinos 8y agoFairly sure there are laws like that (you can't leave random garbage on the street, no public nudity, etc?), just no active enforcement. Because it's not practical to patrol all the time, everywhere. Tackling this problem needs to be done on other levels.
- AllegedAlec 8y agoWhich are apparently doing nothing, because this problem has been around for quite a long time (over half a decade by now, I believe?).
- laxhomelesslaws 8y agoNot shooting them on sight. At least that's what most of the rich people in SF complaining about homeless people seem to think.
- diogenescynic 8y agoCops don’t enforce most drug laws and property crimes here, I suspect that’s what he means. So the SFPD is really uninvolved and doesn’t like to cite or arrest homeless people unless they are violent. It’s like a low level state of anarchy being allowed. If a homeless person decides to camp on your property, good look getting the cops to remove them. You need a special sign displayed that you have to apply for and pay for to even remove trespassers... the whole city is structured to allow petty crimes.
- norseman 8y agoYou can get heroin and go shoot up inside the BART train station in SF. If you call the police they might show up, probably not. They'll arrest 1....100 other there shooting up too. Edit: Soy boy SF engineers down voting me, go get your soy lattes and feed the dead overdosed pigeons in SF park ya faggots
- louisswiss 8y agoI made the mistake of staying in a hotel in the Tenderloin district the first time I visited SF. As a European who has visited many different countries on multiple continents (including time spent living in NY and London), I was truly shocked. It wasn't just the filth though - rather the shocking part is the contrast of such filth/destitution juxtaposed on a background of prosperity, and the way SFers almost nonchalantly accept it as 'normal'.
- dsfyu404ed 8y agoRest assured, Americans from 49 other states find it equally unsettling.
- wallace_f 8y agoSF is as bad as I have seen, but many other US cities have scary homeless scenes. No other country in the world that I've been to have I seen this phenomenon. It's similar to no-go zones in American cities. Everyone just pretends it doesn't exist.
- crooked-v 8y agoIt sounds like you're trying to argue for some weird conspiracy theory. There are dangerous areas in US cities, but that's not the same as the (generally mythical) idea of "no-go zones".
- tunap 8y agoIt's no conspiracy, it's a racket called "gentrification". The hoods get cleaned up, some naive, young professionals buy in @ inflated prices & then the sun goes down & everything not bolted down is stolen/destroyed. Then there's the break-ins, muggings & murders, but we don't like to talk too much about those aspects.
- wallace_f 8y agoConspiracy? What? First day of work I can remember three different people told me "dont ever on go the other side of the highway; dont even drive through it." First month of uni I unknowingly drove into the wrong neighborhood and stopped at a park. As soon as I turned off the engine and got out a group of people that were playing basketball started pointing at me and running at me. I dont think they wanted to introduce themselves in a friendly way. Later that semester, my friend wondered drunk into that neighborhood and was sucker punched and robbed of his wallet and cell phone. Funny you call this some conspiracy? I know it's not PC, but conspiracy? Really?
- narrator 8y agoIt's worth looking into the idea that a lot of San Francisco's problems are connected to local court judges who appear to be very lenient on property crimes[1]. [1] https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/heatherknight/article/Lenient-court-system-weakens-city-s-attempts-to-13145711.php#photo-15984319 https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/heatherknight/article/Le...
- claydavisss 8y agoProp 47 imposed this state-wide. Its why package theft is such a huge problem now - its a catch-and-release crime.
- dsfyu404ed 8y agoI agree. It's one thing to have a catch and release policy for victimless crimes like drug possession or contempt of cop but getting nothing more than a slap on the wrist for a crime that victimizes someone else is not acceptable, especially for repeat offenders. Unfortunately it looks like other states are slowly implementing similar policies.
- jpochtar 8y agoSF is just worse at running itself than NY, Tokyo, and every other major city in the world. If we could accept that, we could could learn from and copy them to fix the city. YIMBY is too incremental— turn SoMa into mini-Manhattan to jump SF 100 years into the future!
- jefflombardjr 8y ago> Just a 15-minute walk away are the offices of Twitter and Uber, two companies that along with other nameplate technology giants have helped push the median price of a home in San Francisco well beyond a million dollars. The article didn't even mention Dreamforce, where no kidding there was a surplus of clean food, water, and even clothing/swag just a 10-15 minute walk abject poverty. The whole thing kind of made me think of the following quote > “The greatest crimes in modern history resulted not just from hatred and greed, but even more so from ignorance and indifference.” ― Yuval Noah Harari, 21 Lessons for the 21st Century I took a couple of extra socks and shirts from software vendors to give out, but man... Heroin is an ugly drug. There was alot of talk about hoping the new mayor would do something. Like set up safe injection sites, but this feels to me like a bandaid for the problem.
- claydavisss 8y agoWhat does Dreamforce have to do with it? The homeless problem in SF has nothing to do with access to food, water or clothes.
- jefflombardjr 8y agoThe root cause of the problem yes, unrelated. But many homeless lack access to these basic necessities that were in such abundance/wasted just 10 minutes away. To juxtapose the two extremes was unsettling.
- anothergoogler 8y agoVagrants in the tenderloin aren't dying of starvation, thirst, or exposure. They could have Dreamforce on the street in the tenderloin every month and it would have no effect on the conditions there.
- jefflombardjr 8y agoThey might not be dying of starvation, but plenty of people in SFO certainly are hungry: https://www.sfchronicle.com/food/article/Nearly-1-in-4-San-Franciscans-struggle-with-hunger-11171678.php https://www.sfchronicle.com/food/article/Nearly-1-in-4-San-F... I was just trying to point out that many people do not have access to the quality of food/water that literally goes to waste at tech companies.
- resters 8y agoWhat people misunderstand about this is that while it is tragic, it is mainly the result of an overly restrictive immigration policy. The blighted areas should be thriving and bustling, full to the brim with immigrants from all over the world, but we turn them away.
- prepend 8y agoThis is an interesting idea. What makes you think better immigration would apply to this problem? Do you think more cultures would displace the homeless? Or they would be more able to care for the vulnerable population? Immigration is less restrictive now than 50 years ago, but this problem seems worse now than in 1970, right? I’m all for improved immigration policy, don’t don’t see the connection.
- resters 8y agoIt depends on one's perspective of the cause of the tenderloin being the tenderloin. My view is that the land and infrastructure in the tenderloin is being horribly misused. Not only does it provide shelter for some people, but it is also an environment where hard drugs and crime are rampant. Immigrants would be willing to settle in some of the more grungy areas, and would quickly clean them up through investment in little things that make a big difference, such as reporting crimes, cleaning up messes, warding off those who have no concern for the value of the neighborhood. There will still need to be housing and treatment for the indigent and addicted, but there is no reason that miles of productive urban space should be blighted for decades due to being overtaken by squalor and crime. Immigrants would revitalize it by filling it with non-addicted and ambitious people who would strive to make it their home.
- nickthemagicman 8y agoThere's spots off Market St. where the homeless set up large markets. They lay down blankets and peddle whatever they've stolen/found/made. Its really fascinating how they've started their own market with their limited resources. San Francisco is like Calcutta.
- dmode 8y agoThe problem with Tenderloin is it is located in the heart of SF. Every city has its squalor. For example, Skid Row in DT LA or south side of Chicago. But tourists wouldn’t stumble upon them
- lovehashbrowns 8y agoThere are tons of awful areas in Chicago--I used to live in a pretty ghetto area of the south side. In the 1990's, the whole area I lived in was a battleground between two major gangs. Walking down the alley past a certain part of the night was practically a guarantee that you'd get robbed, at gun point, by a passing car. Gangs used to recruit kids in my elementary school, and the nearby high school was completely overrun by gangs. Still, that area of Chicago was pretty damn clean compared to what I have seen in SF. Living here is so depressing, even more so than what I've encountered in Chicago. Walking past literal hobo shanty towns on the sidewalk; seeing god damn used needles on the sidewalk across the street from my office; having coworkers visiting from out-of-state harassed by homeless people; SHIT EVERYWHERE. Not even just downtown. I live in the Richmond District and there's constantly shit on the sidewalk. This is easily the grossest city I've ever been in. The most maddening thing about all of this is how much it costs to live here. Fucking hell. AND HOW MUCH THEY CHARGE FOR SECURITY DEPOSITS! This is all so crazy to me.
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- opwieurposiu 8y agoIs there some way to pay the homeless people to clean up the city? I am thinking of something like a smartphone app that logs which blocks you spend time on. If you spend time on a block and it's cleanliness improves you get money. This idea does have some problems regarding minimum wage laws and funding but the concept could be worth a try at least.
- PretzelFisch 8y agoIs homeless the right word? Many of the people who live on the streets of sf have other issues. Is lumping all people without homes together detrimental to those that just need little stability and shelter to get back on their feet.