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Both major US parties are headed towards their own extreme, highly skewed views of reality. People deeply rooted in each side think it's only the other side tha

by fiblye 8y ago

Both major US parties are headed towards their own extreme, highly skewed views of reality. People deeply rooted in each side think it's only the other side that's crazy. And the media megacorps are playing this up hard, really trying to push that divide to get people to view their reactionary bullshit, bringing in the ad revenue. And it's working probably even better than they intended, since Americans seem to hate each other more than they have in almost 150 years.

Daishiman 8y ago
Please, let's stop with the "both sides" rhetoric. One party's views have not changed dramatically with time, and still have arguments and discussions grounded in reality. Another party's views are being shaped by propagandistic forces that have no interested in basing themselves under any realistic interpretation of reality.
- oerpli 8y ago
  The fun thing is that I'm pretty sure that someone on the other side could write the exact same thing and sincerely believe it. I am not even sure if I am the dunce here for not getting that you wrote it that way on purpose and I'm explaining you your own joke.
  - archagon 8y ago
    It’s easy to believe things when you’re not bound by the truth.
- iamdave 8y ago
  I love seeing statements like this because it always stops short of identifying who's who when making such barbarically binary assessments, and I often wonder why that is.
- jf- 8y ago
  It is both sides. How grounded in reality you think either are depends on your own biases. From my point of view both the left and the right have become more extreme and more removed from the truth. The left thinks that the right is distorting reality more than they are (and they are to a degree) because they themselves live in an oppositely distorted reality.
  - Daishiman 8y ago
    No, I'm sorry but that's absolutely false. One party places anti-immigration rhetoric that completely contradicts the experts' understanding of immigration policies, from experts with all sorts of political backgrounds. One party denies the entirety of the fields of climate science, environmental science, and has no trouble entertaining Creationist ideals that reject the entirety of the field of biology. One party rejects our current understanding of policies that reduce violent crime, and incarceration. The other one at the very least has an internal dialogue where positions are based on known statistics. This repeats itself on and on. The fact that there are people who reject our current understanding of topics on all political sides doesn't mean that there is one party whose political interests are completely disconnected to the point where there are no real internal arguments for logical cohesiveness.
    - jf- 8y ago
      No, the left has recently adopted anti-centrism, which is just a form of the ultimatum “you’re either with us or against us”. Attacking the center to try to force moderates to lean further left. I don’t agree with everything the Republicans believe, and I don’t agree with everything that the democrats believe, and I won’t be told that there is no such thing as a middle ground.
      - Daishiman 8y ago
        What exactly are the positions that you believe are being attacked? Be more specific.
        8y ago
- sheepmullet 8y ago
  > One party's views have not changed dramatically with time, and still have arguments and discussions grounded in reality. Of course that is what everyone ideologically invested in their own side thinks.
  - Daishiman 8y ago
    What was the public Republican position on Russia 10 years ago? On trade and commerce? Deficits? Military intervention?
    - sheepmullet 8y ago
      > What was the public Republican position on Russia 10 years ago? And the Democrats? I remember the Democrats laughing at McCain talking about the Russian threat. > On trade and commerce? Deficits? Largely the same? > Military intervention? Ok sure the Republicans aren’t the war hawks they once were but many of the same neocons are still there biding their time.
      - Daishiman 8y ago
        > And the Democrats? I remember the Democrats laughing at McCain talking about the Russian threat. The Obama administration warned about the Russian threat. The Republican party has been coopted by it. How does that place any blame on the left when it has been the RNC who's allowed itself to be infiltrated by external actors? > Largely the same? The GOP had never been in favor of the tariffs Trump proposes. The current platform is entirely inconsistent.
        iamdave 8y ago
        Question: what if any criticisms of the modern Democratic party would you hear and think are warranted and deserved, would you be willing to articulate those criticisms or are they spotless blameless and perfect as a party? This is my problem with the people who think it's not a "both sides" issue or that both sides dont have serious issues that makes people want to have nothing to do with their affiliations. Not that they disagree with my personal critiques of the left; but that they are typically so married to their party it is functionally impossible for them to find any fault or willingess to critique their side for the better when it's absolutey called for and necessary. Instead it's a matter of"YOU tell ME what wrong with the party and I'll tell you why you're wrong". They will turn right around and blame "the other" or explain every failing of their opponents with vigor, with a straight face and not a single hint of irony or self-awareness for things like straight ticket voting or blind partisan loyalty If you ignore the baggage in your ranks, you be signaled to everyone else it's fine for them to do the same.

by fiblye 8y ago

Daishiman 8y ago

Please, let's stop with the "both sides" rhetoric. One party's views have not changed dramatically with time, and still have arguments and discussions grounded in reality. Another party's views are being shaped by propagandistic forces that have no interested in basing themselves under any realistic interpretation of reality.

oerpli 8y ago
The fun thing is that I'm pretty sure that someone on the other side could write the exact same thing and sincerely believe it. I am not even sure if I am the dunce here for not getting that you wrote it that way on purpose and I'm explaining you your own joke.
- archagon 8y ago
  It’s easy to believe things when you’re not bound by the truth.
iamdave 8y ago
I love seeing statements like this because it always stops short of identifying who's who when making such barbarically binary assessments, and I often wonder why that is.
jf- 8y ago
It is both sides. How grounded in reality you think either are depends on your own biases. From my point of view both the left and the right have become more extreme and more removed from the truth. The left thinks that the right is distorting reality more than they are (and they are to a degree) because they themselves live in an oppositely distorted reality.
- Daishiman 8y ago
  No, I'm sorry but that's absolutely false. One party places anti-immigration rhetoric that completely contradicts the experts' understanding of immigration policies, from experts with all sorts of political backgrounds. One party denies the entirety of the fields of climate science, environmental science, and has no trouble entertaining Creationist ideals that reject the entirety of the field of biology. One party rejects our current understanding of policies that reduce violent crime, and incarceration. The other one at the very least has an internal dialogue where positions are based on known statistics. This repeats itself on and on. The fact that there are people who reject our current understanding of topics on all political sides doesn't mean that there is one party whose political interests are completely disconnected to the point where there are no real internal arguments for logical cohesiveness.
  - jf- 8y ago
    No, the left has recently adopted anti-centrism, which is just a form of the ultimatum “you’re either with us or against us”. Attacking the center to try to force moderates to lean further left. I don’t agree with everything the Republicans believe, and I don’t agree with everything that the democrats believe, and I won’t be told that there is no such thing as a middle ground.
    - Daishiman 8y ago
      What exactly are the positions that you believe are being attacked? Be more specific.
      - 8y ago
sheepmullet 8y ago
> One party's views have not changed dramatically with time, and still have arguments and discussions grounded in reality. Of course that is what everyone ideologically invested in their own side thinks.
- Daishiman 8y ago
  What was the public Republican position on Russia 10 years ago? On trade and commerce? Deficits? Military intervention?
  - sheepmullet 8y ago
    > What was the public Republican position on Russia 10 years ago? And the Democrats? I remember the Democrats laughing at McCain talking about the Russian threat. > On trade and commerce? Deficits? Largely the same? > Military intervention? Ok sure the Republicans aren’t the war hawks they once were but many of the same neocons are still there biding their time.
    - Daishiman 8y ago
      > And the Democrats? I remember the Democrats laughing at McCain talking about the Russian threat. The Obama administration warned about the Russian threat. The Republican party has been coopted by it. How does that place any blame on the left when it has been the RNC who's allowed itself to be infiltrated by external actors? > Largely the same? The GOP had never been in favor of the tariffs Trump proposes. The current platform is entirely inconsistent.
      - iamdave 8y ago
        Question: what if any criticisms of the modern Democratic party would you hear and think are warranted and deserved, would you be willing to articulate those criticisms or are they spotless blameless and perfect as a party? This is my problem with the people who think it's not a "both sides" issue or that both sides dont have serious issues that makes people want to have nothing to do with their affiliations. Not that they disagree with my personal critiques of the left; but that they are typically so married to their party it is functionally impossible for them to find any fault or willingess to critique their side for the better when it's absolutey called for and necessary. Instead it's a matter of"YOU tell ME what wrong with the party and I'll tell you why you're wrong". They will turn right around and blame "the other" or explain every failing of their opponents with vigor, with a straight face and not a single hint of irony or self-awareness for things like straight ticket voting or blind partisan loyalty If you ignore the baggage in your ranks, you be signaled to everyone else it's fine for them to do the same.