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I never understood Apple with this. They fight hard to make long lasting devices (iOS 12 can be installed all the way back on the 5s IIRC), but then fight back

I never understood Apple with this. They fight hard to make long lasting devices (iOS 12 can be installed all the way back on the 5s IIRC), but then fight back against repairability

NeedMoreTea 8y ago
I presume there is good margin in official repairs. Just like there is speccing extra memory on a machine you buy, that can be bought for a quarter of the price from Crucial or Amazon for equally high speed and quality. They have clearly set their direction of travel, so I hold out no hope of ever owning another Cheese Grater with similar attention to detail of how upgrades are enabled.
Terretta 8y ago
Repairability is a trade off. Have you looked under the hood of a German car lately?
- giancarlostoro 8y ago
  Or any car I would think. A lot of cars have a cover for the motor telling you not to screw around with your car.
- NeedMoreTea 8y ago
  All cars pretty much, mainly thanks to emissions regs
  - ams6110 8y ago
    Part of the reason I only buy older cars, so I can work on them myself. I enjoy it as a hobby, and it saves me a lot of money.
    - rad_gruchalski 8y ago
      Time is money. I charge more per hour than my authorized bmw dealer charges me.
      - parrellel 8y ago
        That's always such a depressing line of thought.
        rad_gruchalski 8y ago
        Maybe that sounded over the top. I don’t come from a wealthy background. I worked 19 years to be here. Sorry if the previous statement was a bit blunt to some.
      - NeedMoreTea 8y ago
        Not the main issue with a hobby. It's as much because it's a satisfying Saturday afternoon as saving $$ on hourly rates. In 30 years of vehicle ownership, all main and authorised dealers do a shoddy job. Frequently fraudulent by charging for parts they did not fit. I'll prefer the independent who's probably struggling to survive.
        Scoundreller 8y ago
        Agreed. I've found the dealership mechanics to be lobotomized flow-chart followers. If X isn't working, replace part A, if that fails, replace part B, if that fails, replace part C. Why not just run the necessary tests to determine which part is broken? Source: exhaust valve spring was broken, and dealership somehow wanted to sell me spark plugs and ignition coils, despite my own notes stating that I've swapped them around but the problem didn't move around.
      - michaelmrose 8y ago
        Congrats on being in the 1% by definition most people aren't here.
threeseed 8y ago
It's a tradeoff between owner repairability and security. And Apple is betting that the second is more important. This isn't a black/white issue. It's which shade of grey you prefer.
- stale2002 8y ago
  It is not a trade-off. Apple is instead purposely trying to make it more difficult to repair their devices. This is evidenced because they ate lobbying against right to repair laws. What possible, non bad faith reason could apple have for opposing people's right to repair their own property?
  - toasterlovin 8y ago
    They are lobbying against the right to repair laws because it will limit what they are able to do from a security standpoint. And, since basically nobody repairs their own machines anyway, it would be a damned shame if 100% of their users lost out on having the best security features possible because 0% of their users want to be able to repair their laptop.
    - bigbugbag 8y ago
      My experience is that about 75% of people owning an apple product would like to have serviced/repaired outside apple due to very long delay and overcharged prices.
    - stale2002 8y ago
      It doesn't limit anything. All right to repair means is that everyone has a legal right to repair something, and apple can't sue you for getting around their restrictions using copywrite or whatever. I don't think apple should be allowed to sue people for fixing things.
- michaelmrose 8y ago
  It's 100% possible to make it harder to tamper without the user certifying its OK without making it require apples permission.
rileymat2 8y ago
The iphone 5s is only 5 years ago.
- tonyedgecombe 8y ago
  Compare that to the Android world, my last Android phone got one update after 6 months and that was it.
  - bigbugbag 8y ago
    Push the comparison further, maybe you can apply an aftermarket firmware with less junk, more fixes and latest updates to your device (if you chose it wisely) you cannot do so with an apple device.
    - tonyedgecombe 8y ago
      Like most people I have zero interest in installing an alternative operating system on my phone.

I never understood Apple with this. They fight hard to make long lasting devices (iOS 12 can be installed all the way back on the 5s IIRC), but then fight back against repairability

NeedMoreTea 8y ago

I presume there is good margin in official repairs. Just like there is speccing extra memory on a machine you buy, that can be bought for a quarter of the price from Crucial or Amazon for equally high speed and quality. They have clearly set their direction of travel, so I hold out no hope of ever owning another Cheese Grater with similar attention to detail of how upgrades are enabled.

Terretta 8y ago

Repairability is a trade off. Have you looked under the hood of a German car lately?

giancarlostoro 8y ago
Or any car I would think. A lot of cars have a cover for the motor telling you not to screw around with your car.
NeedMoreTea 8y ago
All cars pretty much, mainly thanks to emissions regs
- ams6110 8y ago
  Part of the reason I only buy older cars, so I can work on them myself. I enjoy it as a hobby, and it saves me a lot of money.
  - rad_gruchalski 8y ago
    Time is money. I charge more per hour than my authorized bmw dealer charges me.
    - parrellel 8y ago
      That's always such a depressing line of thought.
      - rad_gruchalski 8y ago
        Maybe that sounded over the top. I don’t come from a wealthy background. I worked 19 years to be here. Sorry if the previous statement was a bit blunt to some.
    - NeedMoreTea 8y ago
      Not the main issue with a hobby. It's as much because it's a satisfying Saturday afternoon as saving $$ on hourly rates. In 30 years of vehicle ownership, all main and authorised dealers do a shoddy job. Frequently fraudulent by charging for parts they did not fit. I'll prefer the independent who's probably struggling to survive.
      - Scoundreller 8y ago
        Agreed. I've found the dealership mechanics to be lobotomized flow-chart followers. If X isn't working, replace part A, if that fails, replace part B, if that fails, replace part C. Why not just run the necessary tests to determine which part is broken? Source: exhaust valve spring was broken, and dealership somehow wanted to sell me spark plugs and ignition coils, despite my own notes stating that I've swapped them around but the problem didn't move around.
    - michaelmrose 8y ago
      Congrats on being in the 1% by definition most people aren't here.

threeseed 8y ago

It's a tradeoff between owner repairability and security. And Apple is betting that the second is more important. This isn't a black/white issue. It's which shade of grey you prefer.

stale2002 8y ago
It is not a trade-off. Apple is instead purposely trying to make it more difficult to repair their devices. This is evidenced because they ate lobbying against right to repair laws. What possible, non bad faith reason could apple have for opposing people's right to repair their own property?
- toasterlovin 8y ago
  They are lobbying against the right to repair laws because it will limit what they are able to do from a security standpoint. And, since basically nobody repairs their own machines anyway, it would be a damned shame if 100% of their users lost out on having the best security features possible because 0% of their users want to be able to repair their laptop.
  - bigbugbag 8y ago
    My experience is that about 75% of people owning an apple product would like to have serviced/repaired outside apple due to very long delay and overcharged prices.
  - stale2002 8y ago
    It doesn't limit anything. All right to repair means is that everyone has a legal right to repair something, and apple can't sue you for getting around their restrictions using copywrite or whatever. I don't think apple should be allowed to sue people for fixing things.
michaelmrose 8y ago
It's 100% possible to make it harder to tamper without the user certifying its OK without making it require apples permission.

rileymat2 8y ago

The iphone 5s is only 5 years ago.

tonyedgecombe 8y ago
Compare that to the Android world, my last Android phone got one update after 6 months and that was it.
- bigbugbag 8y ago
  Push the comparison further, maybe you can apply an aftermarket firmware with less junk, more fixes and latest updates to your device (if you chose it wisely) you cannot do so with an apple device.
  - tonyedgecombe 8y ago
    Like most people I have zero interest in installing an alternative operating system on my phone.