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I think the original article made a good point, and one that seems to be overlooked by pretty much every critical response: if you don't already know standard s
by weberc2 8y ago
I think the original article made a good point, and one that seems to be overlooked by pretty much every critical response: if you don't already know standard sysadmin tooling and procedures, then the value proposition for k8s for small projects alone is probably comparable to standard sysadmin tooling. At least with k8s, you can take that knowledge with you when you want to scale.
I don't know if I'm totally convinced by that argument alone, but it would be nice if every critical response didn't seem to assume that every hobbyist is born understanding systemd, ansible, packer, qemu, etc.
- n0w 8y agoThis is the thing I think most people miss when they complain about the complexity of Kubernetes. If you already know how to use standard sysadmin tools it looks like a lot of additional knowledge to achieve similar outcomes. These people seem to forget that there is a lot of complexity in their sysadmin tools too.
- wpietri 8y agoDo you really thing you can set up and run a Kubernetes cluster, even a small one, without significant understanding of standard sysadmin tooling? I know a fair bit, and I didn't find it easy.
- Aeolun 8y agoYou certainly can, but you need to find that one easy way to do it, that only appears obvious in hindsight.
- weberc2 8y agoAbsolutely. I set one up from scratch on a cluster of Raspberry Pis and I don't know shit about Packer, Ansible, SystemD, and probably a bunch of things I'm only nominally familiar with. And that was a bare metal cluster, and it was hard; however, I don't think it was hard for lack of sysadmin knowledge, it was hard because I was learning K8s, I had to learn about ingres and MetalLB, K8s requires you to modify cgroups things that I don't know shit about, various RPI/docker/architecture tedium, and other K8s particularities that aren't "standard sysadmin" things. More importantly, as the original article mentioned, cloud providers do this setup for you for an affordable price so you absolutely don't need to know the standard sysadmin things.
- ams6110 8y agoIf you, or somebody available to you, doesn't know standard sysadmin things, you shouldn't be deploying a production system. When things inevitably do go wrong, you'll need that sysadmin knowledge to get things sorted out.
- wpietri 8y agoBut here we're talking about personal projects. That's how a lot of people learn exactly what production systems take.