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> Even when guns are involved (e.g. suspect holding a gun or a knife), European police is usually able to defuse the situation better and not shoot to kill. As

> Even when guns are involved (e.g. suspect holding a gun or a knife), European police is usually able to defuse the situation better and not shoot to kill. As a counterexample, Eric Torrell was recently shot to death by Swedish police [0] (link is Swedish). He was 20 years old with Downs syndrome and carrying a toy gun. [0] https://www.expressen.se/tagg/person/eric-torell/ https://www.expressen.se/tagg/person/eric-torell/

coldtea 8y ago
Yes, it happens. But much less frequently, and is not the "default mode" in such situations.
- valvar 8y ago
  What's your source on this? My impression, without having any particular evidence, but as a Swedish citizen, is that they follow a similar policy as American police if their own safety is at risk. The main difference is that there are less weapons in Scandinavia.
  - elbasti 8y ago
    Swedish police fires a gun, on average, about 30 times per year, with about half of those being "for effect" as opposed to being shot with the intent to kill. The united states doesn't track the number of times police shoot a gun, only the number of times police murder somebody. That number is over 1,000 people per year.[0] [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_firearm_use_by_country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_firearm_use_by_country
    - O_H_E 8y ago
      I agree with the premise of all what you and others are saying, but for the sake of fairness we should not eliminate the size of the population from the equation
      - coldtea 8y ago
        Percentages don't look good either. In fact they are an order of magnitude worse than the 1:1 ratio for most EU countries...
        O_H_E 8y ago
        I totally agree that the US is way more violent, was just pointing out something
      - ceejayoz 8y ago
        Population doesn't change it much. The LAPD put over 100 rounds in one incident into two innocent women's truck when they were out delivering newspapers. The truck looked nothing like the suspect's vehicle. http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/no-charges-8-lapd-shot-innocents-manhunt-article-1.2511683 http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/no-charges-8-lapd-s... > When one of the women threw a newspaper onto the pavement in the early-morning hours, an officer believing the sound was a gunshot opened fire. Officers unable to see clearly into the truck sprayed it with 103 rounds, and hit seven nearby homes and nine other vehicles with gunshots and shotgun pellets. That's more rounds than Germany uses in most years for its entire 80M population, and more than the UK discharged in what looks like the last decade or so. In one shooting, in one city, against people who'd done nothing wrong.
        O_H_E 8y ago
        I totally agree that the US is way more violent, was just pointing out something
      - Pudini 8y ago
        So: 30 guns fired / 10.10^6 people vs 1 000 police murders / 325.10^6 people. 3.10^-6 guns fired per capita vs 3.10^-6 murders per capita. Couldn't find the Swedish police murders stats. I'd estimate on their police murders per capita to be 2 or 3 orders of magnitude less than the USA.
        8y ago
  - coldtea 8y ago
    >What's your source on this? Statistics of police shootings. >follow a similar policy as American police if their own safety is at risk Doesn't take guns or actual risk. US cops thing their safety is "at risk" from a middle aged middle class black man sitting in a car with his kids beside them. Or an unarmed homeless person getting too rowdy.
    - longerthoughts 8y ago
      >>What's your source on this? >Statistics of police shootings. Do you have any stats specifically on cases like this where the person killed was neither armed nor dangerous? Interested but haven't been able to find any.
tyfon 8y ago
This was news all over Scandinavia and debated up and down and the police actions were condemned from everyone. It was an extremely troublesome case even here in Norway. It rocked the very principals that our societies are based on. So yes, it can happen (it has happened once) but it's not institutionalised. I suspect this case will also be used in training in the future as an example of what not to do.
- mcv 8y ago
  The fact that it is news at all, and that people widely condemn it, says a lot. In the US, these sort of situations seem to be terrifyingly common. In Netherland, police do carry guns, but they are very rarely used. And even more rarely fired.
  - ndnxhs 8y ago
    In Australia it was a national news story that someone pulled out a gun in a pizza takeaway place. No one was hurt but just pulling out a gun was shocking enough to be big news.
opencl 8y ago
Meanwhile in America 2-3 people are shot and killed by police per day. https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/police-shootings-2017/?noredirect=on https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/police-shoo...

coldtea 8y ago

Yes, it happens. But much less frequently, and is not the "default mode" in such situations.

valvar 8y ago
What's your source on this? My impression, without having any particular evidence, but as a Swedish citizen, is that they follow a similar policy as American police if their own safety is at risk. The main difference is that there are less weapons in Scandinavia.
- elbasti 8y ago
  Swedish police fires a gun, on average, about 30 times per year, with about half of those being "for effect" as opposed to being shot with the intent to kill. The united states doesn't track the number of times police shoot a gun, only the number of times police murder somebody. That number is over 1,000 people per year.[0] [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_firearm_use_by_country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_firearm_use_by_country
  - O_H_E 8y ago
    I agree with the premise of all what you and others are saying, but for the sake of fairness we should not eliminate the size of the population from the equation
    - coldtea 8y ago
      Percentages don't look good either. In fact they are an order of magnitude worse than the 1:1 ratio for most EU countries...
      - O_H_E 8y ago
        I totally agree that the US is way more violent, was just pointing out something
    - ceejayoz 8y ago
      Population doesn't change it much. The LAPD put over 100 rounds in one incident into two innocent women's truck when they were out delivering newspapers. The truck looked nothing like the suspect's vehicle. http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/no-charges-8-lapd-shot-innocents-manhunt-article-1.2511683 http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/no-charges-8-lapd-s... > When one of the women threw a newspaper onto the pavement in the early-morning hours, an officer believing the sound was a gunshot opened fire. Officers unable to see clearly into the truck sprayed it with 103 rounds, and hit seven nearby homes and nine other vehicles with gunshots and shotgun pellets. That's more rounds than Germany uses in most years for its entire 80M population, and more than the UK discharged in what looks like the last decade or so. In one shooting, in one city, against people who'd done nothing wrong.
      - O_H_E 8y ago
        I totally agree that the US is way more violent, was just pointing out something
    - Pudini 8y ago
      So: 30 guns fired / 10.10^6 people vs 1 000 police murders / 325.10^6 people. 3.10^-6 guns fired per capita vs 3.10^-6 murders per capita. Couldn't find the Swedish police murders stats. I'd estimate on their police murders per capita to be 2 or 3 orders of magnitude less than the USA.
      - 8y ago
- coldtea 8y ago
  >What's your source on this? Statistics of police shootings. >follow a similar policy as American police if their own safety is at risk Doesn't take guns or actual risk. US cops thing their safety is "at risk" from a middle aged middle class black man sitting in a car with his kids beside them. Or an unarmed homeless person getting too rowdy.
  - longerthoughts 8y ago
    >>What's your source on this? >Statistics of police shootings. Do you have any stats specifically on cases like this where the person killed was neither armed nor dangerous? Interested but haven't been able to find any.

tyfon 8y ago

This was news all over Scandinavia and debated up and down and the police actions were condemned from everyone. It was an extremely troublesome case even here in Norway. It rocked the very principals that our societies are based on. So yes, it can happen (it has happened once) but it's not institutionalised. I suspect this case will also be used in training in the future as an example of what not to do.

mcv 8y ago
The fact that it is news at all, and that people widely condemn it, says a lot. In the US, these sort of situations seem to be terrifyingly common. In Netherland, police do carry guns, but they are very rarely used. And even more rarely fired.
- ndnxhs 8y ago
  In Australia it was a national news story that someone pulled out a gun in a pizza takeaway place. No one was hurt but just pulling out a gun was shocking enough to be big news.

opencl 8y ago

Meanwhile in America 2-3 people are shot and killed by police per day. https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/police-shootings-2017/?noredirect=on https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/police-shoo...