7 ms·

Genuine question: is getting pulled over in the US really that hazardous that people have to record it in case things go wrong?

joshmn 8y ago
No. People seem to think it is because of what they've seen online. There are plenty of interactions with police that are friendly or otherwise fine. And this is coming from someone who has had plenty of interactions with them that were ultimately negative for myself.
- lovich 8y ago
  The presence of issues is not the main problem. Even the best system is going to have bad actors slip in on occasion or mistakes happen. The problem is that even when an officer makes an egregious and documented violation of the law, on purpose, there is no expectation any more that they will face the same punishment that the rest of the population would face. It's a complete breakdown of the rule of law and leads to more and more disregard for the law, which is only going to be met with more authoritarian responses unless the police decide to actually apply the law to themselves as well.
- ikeyany 8y ago
  I love the number of white people chiming in, so damn sure others' perceptions must be overblown.
symfoniq 8y ago
I’ve been pulled over four times in my driving history. All my interactions with the cops were pleasant and professional.
- virmundi 8y ago
  I've been pulled over once (surrounded by 6 cop cars at a later date because I think they were bored). I was told by mother to let the office leave first. I sat. I waited as a white man in my white Honda Civic with a parking permit to a known-in-that-area Christian University. The office loaded a shotgun (that was fun to watch), then came to my car to ask if I was planning anything. I explained the situation. He told me to leave.
- rhizome 8y ago
  Are you by chance a white male?
- tjmc 8y ago
  Only issue I've had was when I was about to cross the US to Canada border on the way to Vancouver. I remembered I'd left my ID in the trunk and pulled over about a mile south of the crossing to get it. Turns out there was an unmarked police car there waiting for people to pull over and ditch their stash or whatever. Cop was extremely rude and so sure I was hiding something he started pulling on the dash of my rental car to see if I had something hidden inside it. I was worried he'd damage the vehicle and I'd lose my insurance. So something like this would have been handy at the time.
- lovich 8y ago
  I've been pulled over twice by cops. Once I was screamed at for driving a quarter mile up to stop under a light instead of the unlit part of the highway. The other time I was talking to one officer when I heard a click and found that his partner had opened my door and was going through my glove compartment. No system is going to be perfect, but the problem is that when blatant abuses or violation of the law happen like in my case, the best course of action is to do just suck it up. If you take action against the police you are at best going to get money, but no action against the police. On top of that now you are a known "agitator" and have to be worried about every cop in that area being against you at worst or ignoring any calls for help at best
CSEThrowaway 8y ago
Not at all, in my opinion. While it is true that there are poorly-trained and malicious cops in the USA (and anywhere in the world), the reports that go viral are very much in the minority. That doesn't diminish how tragic they are, however. It really upsets me that people in our country grow up thinking that law enforcement officers may not be the people to go to when they need assistance. It is an issue that permeates into various others—for example, in light of the Kavanaugh circus, who would go to law enforcement to report sexual assault if they feel (or have been told they will be) discriminated against? A very sad state of affairs...and it can't be solved with dynamic programming. :(
virmundi 8y ago
Generally not. Unfortunately civil forfeiture is a thing. There are many stories, frankly 1 is more than enough, where people are driving with cash because either they, or their business partner, prefers/only-can-take cash. The police say you are a criminal intent on an illicit transaction. They seize your money. They hold the money on separate charges than you. If you lack the wherewithal to sue for your money back, you forfeit it. The money is then spend on things like guns, tanks, and margarita machines. While this single link does not argue for all the expenditures, it does show the corruption in the system. https://www.forbes.com/sites/instituteforjustice/2014/06/05/cops-in-texas-seize-millions-by-policing-for-profit/#32a55b781a81 https://www.forbes.com/sites/instituteforjustice/2014/06/05/...
- ardy42 8y ago
  >> Genuine question: is getting pulled over in the US really that hazardous that people have to record it in case things go wrong? > Generally not. Unfortunately civil forfeiture is a thing. There are many stories, frankly 1 is more than enough, where people are driving with cash... Right now, I think people are more concerned with getting shot or roughed up by the police than with getting their money stolen by them.
  - askmike 8y ago
    As someone who is from a western European country, this sounds completely messed up. If you are scared of law enforcement (first not to get shot, but also to not have your stuff stolen), how can you ever live comfortably?
    - nineteen999 8y ago
      Well, for some perspective, it's not just the police in the USA that shoot people is it: https://edition.cnn.com/2017/10/03/americas/us-gun-statistics/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/2017/10/03/americas/us-gun-statistic... "The US has one of the highest rates of death by firearm in the developed world, according to World Health Organization data. Our calculations based on OECD data from 2010 show that Americans are 51 times more likely to be killed by gunfire than people in the United Kingdom." https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2017/10/06/555861898/gun-violence-how-the-u-s-compares-to-other-countries https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2017/10/06/5558618... "The U.S. gun violence death rate is also higher than nearly all countries in sub-Saharan Africa, including many that are among the world's poorest."
i_cant_speel 8y ago
I've been pulled over maybe 5 times over the years (headlight out, expired license plate sticker) and I have yet to have a bad experience with them. They have always been friendly and I've never actually gotten a ticket, even on a time where I didn't have up to date proof of insurance in my car. People just don't usually write about the 99.9% of occurrences when nothing eventful happens. And many of the people who do have issues with the police provoked them by intentionally being difficult and/or rude.
- ndnxhs 8y ago
  I'm sure the 99% of interactions are perfectly fine but the number of bad interactions in the US seems way way above any other western country. There are numerous news stories about Australians gettting shot by police while traveling to America but virtually none from within Australia. Last police shooting I remember in Australia was when the person was running at the police with a knife.
  - weberc2 8y ago
    I genuinely wonder if the US has more violent criminals or something. Perhaps worse mental health or drug rehab services. Unfortunately it’s such a politicized issue I don’t hope to get good answers in the near term.
    - httpsterio 8y ago
      That would be ironic.
    - gmueckl 8y ago
      The other thing that makes me wonder is the fact that police officers are rarely teamed up in the US. A lone cop is bound to be more nervous and ready to reach for a weapon than when he is covered by a partner standing 5m behind with a hand on his gun holster (which is e.g. German procedure).
      - weberc2 8y ago
rectang 8y ago
It's an extremely divisive issue. Traffic stops are more hazardous for the police in the US compared to other countries where guns are not as common. Interactions are thus more tense. But where it really gets divisive is about racial disparities in policing including who gets pulled over how often. There have been many protests movements about this going back many decades, and of course they are still active today. Some people, however, do not believe that those protest movements have a basis.
- LyndsySimon 8y ago
  > Traffic stops are more hazardous for the police in the US compared to other countries where guns are not as common. I’m curious, do you have data that support that assertion? A quick search shows less than 50 police officer killed per year by gunfire in the US: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-36748136 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-36748136 This article claims “10 to 15” officers in the UK are shot and killed per year. https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-19634164 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-19634164 Given that the population of the UK is 65 million, that’s one shooting death per 4.3 to 6.5 million citizens. The US population is 325 million, which comes out to one death per 6.5 million citizens. That doesn’t break down by type of interaction, but if your assertion were true I’d expect to see a more apparent difference.
  - NeedMoreTea 8y ago
    You're misreading. England is 0.7 per year from shooting: The organisation said 256, including PC Bone and PC Hughes, have been shot since 1945. That's roughly 3 a year, and includes Northern Ireland during the Troubles which is 80% of the total. England: 51 shot and 19 stabbed in total since 1945. So roughly one death a year since 1945 from shooting or stabbing. The 10 to 15 a year is police killed in the line of duty by all means, including traffic accidents.
  - Symbiote 8y ago
    The 2017 figures have one stabbed (the terrorist attack on Westminster Bridge) and one intentionally hit by a car during a chase. The others are traffic accidents not during a chase, or falling ill. http://www.policememorial.org.uk/rollofhonour.php# http://www.policememorial.org.uk/rollofhonour.php#
Caprinicus 8y ago
It’s not necessarily about danger, but it could help legally depending on what’s going on.
matz1 8y ago
Yes, In general, in my opinion, dealing with the police in most situation is, at least in the us, is a dangerous preposition. edit: in my experience
- thoughtexplorer 8y ago
  This is meant as constructive feedback: You're not thinking clearly if you believe that. Take some time to consider how many people get pulled over every day. Think critically about the odds. Don't make the mistake of thinking that what you see on the news or social media is normal.
  - retsibsi 8y ago
    They didn't say that something goes badly wrong most of the time, just that it's usually dangerous. Likewise, most of us would agree that policing is a dangerous job, even though in the vast majority of cases a police officer comes home unscathed at the end of the day.
  - ionised 8y ago
    He said in his experience. Then you tell him he's not thinking clearly or critically. Could you be more any more patronising and dismissive?
    - thoughtexplorer 8y ago
      They edited the post after my response. What I responded to was different. So I see how it appears that way.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
alphabettsy 8y ago
The media tends to focus on the most extreme misconduct resulting in death, but grossly unprofessional behavior, excessive force, etc. are far more common and attract far less attention. I was shocked at how many people are charged with resisting arrest or assault on an officer. Are that many people really resisting and assaulting the officers? Maybe, maybe not.
InclinedPlane 8y ago
A thousand people a year are killed by police in the US every single year. That's killed, not just shot at or brutalized. Most homicides are committed by people who know one another, however about 1 in 3 homicides involving strangers are committed by the police. There have been numerous incidents where police killed unarmed citizens due to the flimsiest of reasons. Which can range from failing to follow poorly worded instructions precisely to running away. Even full, immediate compliance is sometimes not enough and can get people shot or killed.
mulmen 8y ago
Genuine answer: it depends on the color of your skin. Cops generally have a lot of leeway in how they handle a situation and current training focuses on protecting the officer at all costs. This means the public is viewed as the enemy. Post 9/11 the US police departments have been militarized with surplus equipment and trained like soldiers. While I still think most cops are "good" the fact is that the "bad" ones can ruin your life in an instant and you will have no recourse. The only safe interaction with US police is the absolute minimum required by law. You cannot assume a police officer will help you and they should be avoided as much as possible.
- dandare 8y ago
  Is it true that the US police is by law not required to help you, even in situations like when you are being attacked by psycho knife man and they stand right next to you?
  - dragonwriter 8y ago
    Yes.
    - ionised 8y ago
      Wait what? US police don't actually have to lift a finger in the case of a crime being committed in front of them? How is that a thing?
      - tremon 8y ago
        They have no mandate to stop crimes from occurring, only to apprehend suspects after a crime has been committed.
        dragonwriter 8y ago
        They don't actually have an obligation to do much of anything after a crime, either.
christefano 8y ago
Yes, it’s called Driving While Black: > https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driving_while_black https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driving_while_black

joshmn 8y ago

No. People seem to think it is because of what they've seen online. There are plenty of interactions with police that are friendly or otherwise fine. And this is coming from someone who has had plenty of interactions with them that were ultimately negative for myself.

lovich 8y ago
The presence of issues is not the main problem. Even the best system is going to have bad actors slip in on occasion or mistakes happen. The problem is that even when an officer makes an egregious and documented violation of the law, on purpose, there is no expectation any more that they will face the same punishment that the rest of the population would face. It's a complete breakdown of the rule of law and leads to more and more disregard for the law, which is only going to be met with more authoritarian responses unless the police decide to actually apply the law to themselves as well.
ikeyany 8y ago
I love the number of white people chiming in, so damn sure others' perceptions must be overblown.

symfoniq 8y ago

I’ve been pulled over four times in my driving history. All my interactions with the cops were pleasant and professional.

virmundi 8y ago
I've been pulled over once (surrounded by 6 cop cars at a later date because I think they were bored). I was told by mother to let the office leave first. I sat. I waited as a white man in my white Honda Civic with a parking permit to a known-in-that-area Christian University. The office loaded a shotgun (that was fun to watch), then came to my car to ask if I was planning anything. I explained the situation. He told me to leave.
rhizome 8y ago
Are you by chance a white male?
tjmc 8y ago
Only issue I've had was when I was about to cross the US to Canada border on the way to Vancouver. I remembered I'd left my ID in the trunk and pulled over about a mile south of the crossing to get it. Turns out there was an unmarked police car there waiting for people to pull over and ditch their stash or whatever. Cop was extremely rude and so sure I was hiding something he started pulling on the dash of my rental car to see if I had something hidden inside it. I was worried he'd damage the vehicle and I'd lose my insurance. So something like this would have been handy at the time.
lovich 8y ago
I've been pulled over twice by cops. Once I was screamed at for driving a quarter mile up to stop under a light instead of the unlit part of the highway. The other time I was talking to one officer when I heard a click and found that his partner had opened my door and was going through my glove compartment. No system is going to be perfect, but the problem is that when blatant abuses or violation of the law happen like in my case, the best course of action is to do just suck it up. If you take action against the police you are at best going to get money, but no action against the police. On top of that now you are a known "agitator" and have to be worried about every cop in that area being against you at worst or ignoring any calls for help at best

CSEThrowaway 8y ago

Not at all, in my opinion. While it is true that there are poorly-trained and malicious cops in the USA (and anywhere in the world), the reports that go viral are very much in the minority. That doesn't diminish how tragic they are, however. It really upsets me that people in our country grow up thinking that law enforcement officers may not be the people to go to when they need assistance. It is an issue that permeates into various others—for example, in light of the Kavanaugh circus, who would go to law enforcement to report sexual assault if they feel (or have been told they will be) discriminated against? A very sad state of affairs...and it can't be solved with dynamic programming. :(

virmundi 8y ago

Generally not. Unfortunately civil forfeiture is a thing. There are many stories, frankly 1 is more than enough, where people are driving with cash because either they, or their business partner, prefers/only-can-take cash. The police say you are a criminal intent on an illicit transaction. They seize your money. They hold the money on separate charges than you. If you lack the wherewithal to sue for your money back, you forfeit it. The money is then spend on things like guns, tanks, and margarita machines. While this single link does not argue for all the expenditures, it does show the corruption in the system. https://www.forbes.com/sites/instituteforjustice/2014/06/05/cops-in-texas-seize-millions-by-policing-for-profit/#32a55b781a81 https://www.forbes.com/sites/instituteforjustice/2014/06/05/...

ardy42 8y ago
>> Genuine question: is getting pulled over in the US really that hazardous that people have to record it in case things go wrong? > Generally not. Unfortunately civil forfeiture is a thing. There are many stories, frankly 1 is more than enough, where people are driving with cash... Right now, I think people are more concerned with getting shot or roughed up by the police than with getting their money stolen by them.
- askmike 8y ago
  As someone who is from a western European country, this sounds completely messed up. If you are scared of law enforcement (first not to get shot, but also to not have your stuff stolen), how can you ever live comfortably?
  - nineteen999 8y ago
    Well, for some perspective, it's not just the police in the USA that shoot people is it: https://edition.cnn.com/2017/10/03/americas/us-gun-statistics/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/2017/10/03/americas/us-gun-statistic... "The US has one of the highest rates of death by firearm in the developed world, according to World Health Organization data. Our calculations based on OECD data from 2010 show that Americans are 51 times more likely to be killed by gunfire than people in the United Kingdom." https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2017/10/06/555861898/gun-violence-how-the-u-s-compares-to-other-countries https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2017/10/06/5558618... "The U.S. gun violence death rate is also higher than nearly all countries in sub-Saharan Africa, including many that are among the world's poorest."

i_cant_speel 8y ago

I've been pulled over maybe 5 times over the years (headlight out, expired license plate sticker) and I have yet to have a bad experience with them. They have always been friendly and I've never actually gotten a ticket, even on a time where I didn't have up to date proof of insurance in my car. People just don't usually write about the 99.9% of occurrences when nothing eventful happens. And many of the people who do have issues with the police provoked them by intentionally being difficult and/or rude.

ndnxhs 8y ago
I'm sure the 99% of interactions are perfectly fine but the number of bad interactions in the US seems way way above any other western country. There are numerous news stories about Australians gettting shot by police while traveling to America but virtually none from within Australia. Last police shooting I remember in Australia was when the person was running at the police with a knife.
- weberc2 8y ago
  I genuinely wonder if the US has more violent criminals or something. Perhaps worse mental health or drug rehab services. Unfortunately it’s such a politicized issue I don’t hope to get good answers in the near term.
  - httpsterio 8y ago
    That would be ironic.
  - gmueckl 8y ago
    The other thing that makes me wonder is the fact that police officers are rarely teamed up in the US. A lone cop is bound to be more nervous and ready to reach for a weapon than when he is covered by a partner standing 5m behind with a hand on his gun holster (which is e.g. German procedure).
    - weberc2 8y ago

rectang 8y ago

It's an extremely divisive issue. Traffic stops are more hazardous for the police in the US compared to other countries where guns are not as common. Interactions are thus more tense. But where it really gets divisive is about racial disparities in policing including who gets pulled over how often. There have been many protests movements about this going back many decades, and of course they are still active today. Some people, however, do not believe that those protest movements have a basis.

LyndsySimon 8y ago
> Traffic stops are more hazardous for the police in the US compared to other countries where guns are not as common. I’m curious, do you have data that support that assertion? A quick search shows less than 50 police officer killed per year by gunfire in the US: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-36748136 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-36748136 This article claims “10 to 15” officers in the UK are shot and killed per year. https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-19634164 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-19634164 Given that the population of the UK is 65 million, that’s one shooting death per 4.3 to 6.5 million citizens. The US population is 325 million, which comes out to one death per 6.5 million citizens. That doesn’t break down by type of interaction, but if your assertion were true I’d expect to see a more apparent difference.
- NeedMoreTea 8y ago
  You're misreading. England is 0.7 per year from shooting: The organisation said 256, including PC Bone and PC Hughes, have been shot since 1945. That's roughly 3 a year, and includes Northern Ireland during the Troubles which is 80% of the total. England: 51 shot and 19 stabbed in total since 1945. So roughly one death a year since 1945 from shooting or stabbing. The 10 to 15 a year is police killed in the line of duty by all means, including traffic accidents.
- Symbiote 8y ago
  The 2017 figures have one stabbed (the terrorist attack on Westminster Bridge) and one intentionally hit by a car during a chase. The others are traffic accidents not during a chase, or falling ill. http://www.policememorial.org.uk/rollofhonour.php# http://www.policememorial.org.uk/rollofhonour.php#

Caprinicus 8y ago

It’s not necessarily about danger, but it could help legally depending on what’s going on.

matz1 8y ago

Yes, In general, in my opinion, dealing with the police in most situation is, at least in the us, is a dangerous preposition. edit: in my experience

thoughtexplorer 8y ago
This is meant as constructive feedback: You're not thinking clearly if you believe that. Take some time to consider how many people get pulled over every day. Think critically about the odds. Don't make the mistake of thinking that what you see on the news or social media is normal.
- retsibsi 8y ago
  They didn't say that something goes badly wrong most of the time, just that it's usually dangerous. Likewise, most of us would agree that policing is a dangerous job, even though in the vast majority of cases a police officer comes home unscathed at the end of the day.
- ionised 8y ago
  He said in his experience. Then you tell him he's not thinking clearly or critically. Could you be more any more patronising and dismissive?
  - thoughtexplorer 8y ago
    They edited the post after my response. What I responded to was different. So I see how it appears that way.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

alphabettsy 8y ago

The media tends to focus on the most extreme misconduct resulting in death, but grossly unprofessional behavior, excessive force, etc. are far more common and attract far less attention. I was shocked at how many people are charged with resisting arrest or assault on an officer. Are that many people really resisting and assaulting the officers? Maybe, maybe not.

InclinedPlane 8y ago

A thousand people a year are killed by police in the US every single year. That's killed, not just shot at or brutalized. Most homicides are committed by people who know one another, however about 1 in 3 homicides involving strangers are committed by the police. There have been numerous incidents where police killed unarmed citizens due to the flimsiest of reasons. Which can range from failing to follow poorly worded instructions precisely to running away. Even full, immediate compliance is sometimes not enough and can get people shot or killed.

mulmen 8y ago

Genuine answer: it depends on the color of your skin. Cops generally have a lot of leeway in how they handle a situation and current training focuses on protecting the officer at all costs. This means the public is viewed as the enemy. Post 9/11 the US police departments have been militarized with surplus equipment and trained like soldiers. While I still think most cops are "good" the fact is that the "bad" ones can ruin your life in an instant and you will have no recourse. The only safe interaction with US police is the absolute minimum required by law. You cannot assume a police officer will help you and they should be avoided as much as possible.

dandare 8y ago
Is it true that the US police is by law not required to help you, even in situations like when you are being attacked by psycho knife man and they stand right next to you?
- dragonwriter 8y ago
  Yes.
  - ionised 8y ago
    Wait what? US police don't actually have to lift a finger in the case of a crime being committed in front of them? How is that a thing?
    - tremon 8y ago
      They have no mandate to stop crimes from occurring, only to apprehend suspects after a crime has been committed.
      - dragonwriter 8y ago
        They don't actually have an obligation to do much of anything after a crime, either.

christefano 8y ago

Yes, it’s called Driving While Black: > https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driving_while_black https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driving_while_black