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> Freelancers are competing not just within their town, not just with in their state, but are completing globally, and there's just huge global pressures on the

> Freelancers are competing not just within their town, not just with in their state, but are completing globally, and there's just huge global pressures on the amount that they can earn... bingo. for a piece of work that can be well specified, separated out from the main workflow and then farmed out, it's natural, in today's world, for the customer to open the field globally. a little too natural. so, the US freelancer is left asking the question: how can I compete with wages set at the global standard of living, including currency exchange differences? there doesn't seem to be a good answer.

kingkawn 8y ago
The answer is that they will all soon be much poorer
seppin 8y ago
Find clients that care about quality, be better, and charge more.
- meiraleal 8y ago
  It's still competing globally. Although it can be said that american coders are above average globally, to earn an American wage every one of them will have to be top 1% in quality.
  - GrumpiNerd 8y ago
    So then the people who aren't skilled enough will have to either improve their skills or go find something else that better fits their skills. Competition is good.
gk1 8y ago
The answer is to stop offering a commodity and start offering something that's unique and valuable. See Patrick McKenzie's epic post: https://www.kalzumeus.com/2011/10/28/dont-call-yourself-a-programmer/ https://www.kalzumeus.com/2011/10/28/dont-call-yourself-a-pr...
- HillaryBriss 8y ago
  excellent. thank you.
mistersquid 8y ago
I'm currently working as a subcontractor for a friend's consultancy. For the better part of the last decade, that consultancy relied on remote workers (outside the US) to generate margin. In that last decade, my friend has discovered there are costs with a remote-only development team and so has decided to insource technical, marketing, and management roles. Her clients are SMBs in the US, and business is growing. So, one direct answer to your question about how a US freelancer can "compete with wages set at the global standard of living, including currency exchange differences" is to serve a US clientele whose products and services are closely tied to the US and (in my particular case) where being in the same time zone has a significant impact on getting work done. I'll also add that the insourced group is implementing more reliable processes and producing higher quality deliverables to the consultancy, as measured by client satisfaction and owner feedback. EDIT: Add paragraph regarding work quality of insourced group.
anoncoward111 8y ago
I'd work for $10 an hour paid cash upfront. If it's a 220 hour project, that's $2200 a month (post tax, because I required cash up front). Nearly anyone could live on that if they have a roommate and no kids.
- Mvandenbergh 8y ago
  That is a somewhat idiosyncratic definition of post-tax.
  - anoncoward111 8y ago
    I think it's better to talk about the actual amount of money that is ending up in my bank account rather than mythical pre-tax rates that receive a 30-50% haircut, especially for 1099s. If the business wants to deduct the expense, then I charge higher. If the business somehow comes up with $2,200 a month in physical cash, then I won't question it. Yes it's illegal, but that's actually for the IRS to prove and not me.
GrumpiNerd 8y ago
The wages aren't set at a "global standard of living". They are set by how skilled you are. Usually people who complain about not being able to earn enough don't have very good skills. I've been using UpWork for a little over 2 years. Last year I did about $60k, this year will be around $75k. Being able to communicate well with my clients is a huge advantage compared to overseas workers. It also helps that I actually know what I'm doing. I rarely work a full 40 hours per week. I've been a freelancer for almost 10 years now. I've briefly done some part-time stints in-person in offices in that time and it was a good reminder of how much I hate being stuck in an office following an arbitrary schedule.
- da02 8y ago
  What type of work do you offer? UX? Programming? (Which languages?)
  - GrumpiNerd 8y ago
    Full-Stack LAMP, mainly building heavily-customized WordPress sites. My current project is big enough that we've brought on some front-end help, so I've learned to manage git and am paying attention to developing my "soft" skills such as management. I'm likely doing a basic AWS certification soon, perhaps followed by some more DevOps type stuff or learning more formal UI/UX skills. At that point I'll be far above the average WordPress developer and could hit $100k+ if not next year, then the year after that. Pretty good for someone without a college degree working from home.
    - ryanwaggoner 8y ago
      You are leaving TONS of money on the table by using Upwork. The entire conceit there is that you’re a commodity and you and the other code monkeys should bid for the job, because you’re interchangeable. I know freelance Wordpress devs doing $200k per year, but not on Upwork.
      - mixmastamyk 8y ago

kingkawn 8y ago

The answer is that they will all soon be much poorer

seppin 8y ago

Find clients that care about quality, be better, and charge more.

meiraleal 8y ago
It's still competing globally. Although it can be said that american coders are above average globally, to earn an American wage every one of them will have to be top 1% in quality.
- GrumpiNerd 8y ago
  So then the people who aren't skilled enough will have to either improve their skills or go find something else that better fits their skills. Competition is good.

gk1 8y ago

The answer is to stop offering a commodity and start offering something that's unique and valuable. See Patrick McKenzie's epic post: https://www.kalzumeus.com/2011/10/28/dont-call-yourself-a-programmer/ https://www.kalzumeus.com/2011/10/28/dont-call-yourself-a-pr...

HillaryBriss 8y ago
excellent. thank you.

mistersquid 8y ago

I'm currently working as a subcontractor for a friend's consultancy. For the better part of the last decade, that consultancy relied on remote workers (outside the US) to generate margin. In that last decade, my friend has discovered there are costs with a remote-only development team and so has decided to insource technical, marketing, and management roles. Her clients are SMBs in the US, and business is growing. So, one direct answer to your question about how a US freelancer can "compete with wages set at the global standard of living, including currency exchange differences" is to serve a US clientele whose products and services are closely tied to the US and (in my particular case) where being in the same time zone has a significant impact on getting work done. I'll also add that the insourced group is implementing more reliable processes and producing higher quality deliverables to the consultancy, as measured by client satisfaction and owner feedback. EDIT: Add paragraph regarding work quality of insourced group.

anoncoward111 8y ago

I'd work for $10 an hour paid cash upfront. If it's a 220 hour project, that's $2200 a month (post tax, because I required cash up front). Nearly anyone could live on that if they have a roommate and no kids.

Mvandenbergh 8y ago
That is a somewhat idiosyncratic definition of post-tax.
- anoncoward111 8y ago
  I think it's better to talk about the actual amount of money that is ending up in my bank account rather than mythical pre-tax rates that receive a 30-50% haircut, especially for 1099s. If the business wants to deduct the expense, then I charge higher. If the business somehow comes up with $2,200 a month in physical cash, then I won't question it. Yes it's illegal, but that's actually for the IRS to prove and not me.

GrumpiNerd 8y ago

The wages aren't set at a "global standard of living". They are set by how skilled you are. Usually people who complain about not being able to earn enough don't have very good skills. I've been using UpWork for a little over 2 years. Last year I did about $60k, this year will be around $75k. Being able to communicate well with my clients is a huge advantage compared to overseas workers. It also helps that I actually know what I'm doing. I rarely work a full 40 hours per week. I've been a freelancer for almost 10 years now. I've briefly done some part-time stints in-person in offices in that time and it was a good reminder of how much I hate being stuck in an office following an arbitrary schedule.

da02 8y ago
What type of work do you offer? UX? Programming? (Which languages?)
- GrumpiNerd 8y ago
  Full-Stack LAMP, mainly building heavily-customized WordPress sites. My current project is big enough that we've brought on some front-end help, so I've learned to manage git and am paying attention to developing my "soft" skills such as management. I'm likely doing a basic AWS certification soon, perhaps followed by some more DevOps type stuff or learning more formal UI/UX skills. At that point I'll be far above the average WordPress developer and could hit $100k+ if not next year, then the year after that. Pretty good for someone without a college degree working from home.
  - ryanwaggoner 8y ago
    You are leaving TONS of money on the table by using Upwork. The entire conceit there is that you’re a commodity and you and the other code monkeys should bid for the job, because you’re interchangeable. I know freelance Wordpress devs doing $200k per year, but not on Upwork.
    - mixmastamyk 8y ago