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Mac OS X.7 "Lion" preview
- alphabeat 16y agoNo ZFS :( This would have made me move.
- gbrindisi 16y agoI still have not figured out what is the actual legal situation of ZFS. Who can use it and at what conditions? Also is now Oracle the "owner"? So confused. I'll dig.
- chc 16y agoWhether ZFS was announced at this event has no bearing on whether it's in Lion or not. As you might deduce from the set of features they did cover, this was for the media and public. ZFS is completely uninteresting to them. I guarantee you there will be a ton of back-end changes, but they will never be announced at something like this. We'll see more of that kind of thing at WWDC next year. But despite all that, dollars to doughnuts ZFS won't be in there. But because of ownership issues, not because it wasn't announced today.
- kevinelliott 16y agoLion looks lackluster. As an app developer, I'm excited for the Mac App Store (and eventual Apple TV App Store) but the rest of the OS does not seem like a major leap, as they are claiming it to be. Snow Leopard offered more than this coming from Leopard.
- _djo_ 16y agoBear in mind that this is only a very early media preview of OS X Lion and that Apple does not traditionally reveal all the juicy details of its new OS X releases this far in advance. So there's no doubt more to come. For instance, Jobs hinted at some new features and APIs coming across from iOS to enable things like instant-on, the automatic and implicit saving of files and state-preservation on quit, none of which was described in any detail. So I highly doubt that what we saw yesterday was the sum total of the innovations and updates that Apple is planning for Lion.
- kevinelliott 16y agoOf course it doesn't, but it didn't really warrant a preview either.
- gaius 16y agoThe even releases are more about new features for developers, the odd releases are more about rolling those features out to everyone.
- kevinelliott 16y agoHmm, that's odd, because that's how they billed Snow Leopard.
- jcw 16y agoIt's obvious how much the design of the iPad/iPhone OS has informed this. It's very 'app' centric, which is funny to me because the public's perception of what an 'app' is is pretty weird. You'd have a hard time describing what a program or an application is to someone, but if you said the word 'app' they'd immediately know what you are talking about, because apps are these little icons that live on their phone. I wouldn't be surprised if someone looking at Launchpad for the first time would be surprised that their macbook "has apps now", even though they are looking at the same applications that have already been on their mac for months. 'App' is definitely a better term than 'application' or 'program' from a UI perspective if more people can so easily understand it, but I don't understand why or how this happened. They're the same thing! It's strange.
- netcan 16y agoIn a lot of ways I think the web has informed this. You could describe this as the desktop fighting back. Obviously many of the web genes have come via the ipad/iphone.
- cwbrandsma 16y agoYes, but how applicable is that when you have 22 inch, dual monitors? For a 15 inch mac book laptop screen it will work tho.
- zdw 16y agoYou'd be surprised at how many people didn't know there were programs other than Internet Explorer and Word, and maybe in an office, Outlook, Excel and QuickBooks. Apple has done the job of making independent app developers into (pardon the phrase) rockstars.
- dangrover 16y agoI wrote a post about this a while back: http://dangrover.com/2010/05/29/indie-developers-and-crossing-the-app-store-chasm/ http://dangrover.com/2010/05/29/indie-developers-and-crossin... When I speak of the triumph of the app, I don't mean it as a synonym for "program." That definition has become archaic. I'm talking about "the app" as the unit of software in popular perception. It is the monad. It is the atom. It is the cell. It is the brick. Software is abstract. An app is concrete. Apps obey basic laws. You can install or uninstall their functionality completely. Apps are indivisible. Apps do not come with other apps, they stand alone. Apps do not touch other apps' data without being allowed. In short, the term "app" could best be defined, more broadly, as the finest, most granular level of control over the computing experience that most users can consistently and comfortably exercise.
- ugh 16y agoI really hope that the Launchpad is the only way to access your applications, i.e. that the old Applications folder is hidden and that the OS, not the user or app developer manages its content. I just despise that phony two-level way of organizing your applications that is so prevalent on Windows, i.e. their applications folder(s) and the Start Menu. If the old Applications folder continues to be accessible I really hope that there is, unlike in the Windows Start Menu, a 1:1 mapping, i.e. folders created in the Launchpad are also created in the Applications folder and applications deleted in the Launchpad are also deleted in the Applications folder.
- derefr 16y agoI'm having a hard time imagining how this whole thing works with a multi-user Mac. Right now, every user account has one iTunes account associated with it, such that different users own different iOS App Store apps. Does that mean that the Mac App Store will only install apps per-user? It didn't seem to suggest that (they said that the app licenses are "per computer", though they also called them "personal.")
- MaysonL 16y agoApps will, according to the keynote, be licensed like iOS apps, for all your personal computers.
- jasonlotito 16y agoWhich does nothing to answer the above question. My wife and I have two computers we share interchangeably. We each have an iPhone, share an iPad, and have an AppleTV (not the latest). If I had to go by the past, the App Store on the Mac is going to have abysmal support for multi-user environments. Hopefully this is not the case. Hopefully the apps I buy work on both accounts on both devices.
- protomyth 16y agoI would bet it still installs stuff in /Applications and just has a per user preference for showing the arrangement of the apps in launch pad.
- kellishaver 16y agoThis looks horrible. I don't want my Macbook to be an ipad. If I wanted an iPad, I'd buy an iPad. (Actually, I do want an iPad, but that still doesn't mean I want anything near a similar UI on my Macbook.)
- siglesias 16y agoA little innovation never hurt anybody! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=av1JPq0Qmy4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=av1JPq0Qmy4
- kellishaver 16y agoI'm all for innovation, and I don't mind change. I just don't particularly think this is a good one.
- jsz0 16y agoI think that's part of the reason they've kept all this features separate. From the demo it appears if you don't want to use them you don't have to.
- kellishaver 16y agoI must have overlooked that bit. That's good to know. I'm sure some of the features will be useful in some instances, but I would hate to have them as my only options.
- cookiecaper 16y agoI expect this is a precursor to touch-screen iMacs and MacBooks.
- roadnottaken 16y agoI don't see how this will ever fly... your arm will get so tired!
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- protomyth 16y agoLooking at it, am I wrong in thinking that I should remove all the apps I can from my dock? It seems like launch pad takes over the app selection part and the dock will then have only the running apps.
- scott_s 16y agoI do that anyway. Apple+spacebar is how I open an application that's not already open.
- gurraman 16y agoI've also hidden my dock. I use it to empty the trash and that's pretty much it.
- zackattack 16y ago>Apple+spacebar How?
- superchink 16y agoHe's talking about using Spotlight as a way to launch applications…
- fragmede 16y agoSpotlight? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spotlight_%28software%29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spotlight_%28software%29
- stevanl 16y agoLaunchBar (ctrl+space): http://www.obdev.at/products/launchbar/index.html http://www.obdev.at/products/launchbar/index.html
- scott_s 16y agoSorry, command. I still think of it as "open-apple."
- csomar 16y agoSo that's what the edition is all about? Order software icons and you get a new major version of an operating system? Comparing XP to Windows 7, there are really awesome reasons why I should make the switch. Improved performance, graphics, the pin bar, windows search, easy network management and a plethora of other useless/useful features.
- slantyyz 16y agoYeah, I came out quite underwhelmed too. I really like Mission Control, but I want to hear about a finder that's finally good (tried the alternatives, didn't like any of them) or resolution independence. None of these features had the whiz-bang appeal of past innovations like Time Machine, etc.
- larrywright 16y agoThis is only what they have announced thus far, I'd bet there is more to come.
- meese_ 16y agoI'd bet the likelihood of Apple finally finishing resolution independence is much higher now, considering how fine the resolutions of the new Macbook Airs are (which, as Jobs said, are probably going to become their most popular computer in the near future).
- jsz0 16y agoComparing XP to Windows 7 is like comparing OSX 10.1 to OSX 10.6
- GHFigs 16y agoNo, this is characterized as a "sneak peak". The main objective seems to have been to get the Mac App Store rolling. There is plenty of time (and at least one regularly scheduled press event) between now and next summer for Apple to pace the revelations. There is a precedent for this in Leopard, where a significant UI overhaul and some other features were actually announced and demoed many months after the initial showing. (Also: it's amusing that you skipped Vista.)
- dgreensp 16y agoI wonder how this simple interface -- which looks awesome! -- integrates with the complexity of Mac OS X, both the good (unixy bottom layers) and bad (long start-up time, error-prone interactions between drivers, network services, etc.). In other words, is it an iPad with the start-up time of a Mac, that sometimes pegs my CPU collecting file-system metadata? Or a Mac with less BSD and more iOS? Hopefully neither. Another question -- is there a "low end" in Apple's world? Are they building an ecosystem that cheap PCs won't be able to participate in? What about old Macs? It would be ironic if my parents had to buy a fancy new 64-bit Mac in order to have a more iPad-like experience when they share photos with me.
- sigzero 16y agoI have no idea if I like this or not. I am guessing it will be a "feel" thing when it comes out.
- Qz 16y agoI'm not 100% on board with the direction they're taking this, but at least they're taking it in a direction.
- roadnottaken 16y agoWhat?
- Qz 16y agoTo elaborate -- mainstream computer UIs have been mostly stagnant for years, with small innovations here and there. 10.7 seems like a bold step in a new direction. I dislike the idea that the iPad is some kind of magical UX unicorn that they want to spread all over their devices, but at least it's something new.
- potatolicious 16y agoFive bucks says Apple moves towards touchscreens on even their mainstream laptops/desktops. The Springboard on OSX, and the completely iOS-esque UI on the new iLife suite... it all sets the stage.
- astrange 16y agoDid you read the transcript of the event? Touchscreen laptops were specifically called out as a bad idea in the current form, because your arm gets tired touching a vertical surface.
- mtinkerhess 16y agoApple always disses a feature its competitors have, until they start offering it and suddenly act like they invented it. I'm sure plenty of people would love to have a touch screen on their MacBook.
- boltofblue 16y agoDid you hear that Steve Jobs once say a desktop App Store was a bad idea? Touch Screen would work fine on an Air, at least.
- astrange 16y ago> Did you hear that Steve Jobs once say a desktop App Store was a bad idea? In general, the idea that Jobs constantly says something sucks and then does it himself mostly seems to come from people over-interpreting what he says. In this particular case, I can't think of what you're referring to. Do you have a link? This sounds like a real problem to me - my desk at school is too high up, so I've even ditched my laptop stand as otherwise I'd have to lift my arms up to reach the keyboard half the time. I would definitely be uncomfortable constantly touching a screen. And what do you think those enormous trackpads are for?
- potatolicious 16y agoI was thinking more specifically about the iMac - there was a recent patent application with an iMac that had the ability to lower and tilt up to become flatter (think drafting table). I thought it was just one of those crazy things that companies patent anyway - but with the iOS-ification of OSX this looks to be more and more likely. I doubt they'd do this with the laptops - that just seems to close the gap too much between the iPad and the MacBook Air, honestly.
- generalk 16y agoI'm seriously underwhelmed here. There's four new features on that page: The Mac App Store Maybe this is a naive point of view, but I can't see the value proposition for third-party devs to have their software in this store. Maybe I'm wrong and it'll be huge. Launchpad A touch interface for a screen that isn't touchable. Anyone I know that doesn't use Quicksilver or Spotlight uses an application stack in the dock. Nifty eye-candy feature, but I'm not seeing the usability gains. Full Screen Apps Not bad, but there are very few applications I want to run fullscreen at all, and even fewer I want to run fullscreen all the time. Mission Control Exposé, except there's a spaces overview at the top. A minor feature bump. Oh, and you can access the dashboard with it. I understand this is a preview intended to excite people who aren't geeks, but still, it just seems so anticlimactic.
- jasonlotito 16y agoI'm willing to bet that they went with what was ready to demo, rather than what they have planned. The stuff they've displayed seem fairly simple all things considered. However, I think they have a problem, what with twenty ways of doing things. Expose, Mission Control, the Launch Pad, the Doc, App folder, Spotlight, Spaces. However... Mac App Store will be huge. Their is every reason to think this. Touch interfaces: it's not so much touch as reacting to touch inputs. This is already accomplished in an abstract way with a mouse. Left and right click, moving around, scrolling the mouse wheel. This is a continuation on what's been happening already. Personally, I think this will be really nice for apps. I already use touch features for navigation where I can, and it's frustrating when an app doesn't support it.
- arn 16y agoI think this is a very narrow view of it all. At the risk of sounding like someone who has drunk too much of the Apple kool aid, here's the big picture potential of all of this together... If apple makes this a cohesive environment. Download, Launch apps, and full screen modes, then we are looking at the next step past the window/mouse GUI -- at least for the masses. iOS and the iPad has been successful in part because of how simple it is to use. Touch metaphors make a lot of sense to non computer people. Not sure if it necessary makes as much sense abstracted to a trackpad interface but certainly one window at a time is much easier for novices to understand. Think of the mom test where I want to talk my mom through installing an app. It's crazy how hard it can be with freely floating windows and disk images and downloading off the internet. App store and launched interface? I think this could be very big. Now that said this sort of interface simplification has been tried for years... So we will see if it sticks this time.
- 51Cards 16y agoJust makes me smile how "Full-screen apps." is a marketing 'feature' in this day and age of supposedly mature OS's.
- global_hero 16y agothat's a feature that ms-dos had!
- armandososa 16y agoSo they have: 1.A control in the lower left corner on the screen that let's you access your apps. 2.A screen full of shortcuts. 3.A maximize button that works as expected. It's Windows 95! -- wait a minute! where's my task bar?
- elblanco 16y agoExcept without the crashes...and more transitions between stuff. I wish they'd let me resize windows from any corner.
- borism 16y agoWindows 98 with GPU card
- armandososa 16y agoI wish they'd let me resize windows from any corner. Wait for OSX Thundercat
- gurraman 16y agoIn every new release I'm still stubbornly hoping for a few new features. 1. A new window management model. Cascaded windows don't do it for me. 2. 256 colors in Terminal.app. 256 colours will never happen. I'm stuck with either urxvt or settling for the SIMBL terminal colours plugin. A new model for managing windows wouldn't be too far fetched though and I was really holding my thumbs during the talk. I shone up when they started talking about full screen applications but it fell kind of flat. Please Apple, if you're going to force me to work in 8 colours, at-least add a means to tile windows and navigate between them with sensible, configurable keyboard shortcuts! :)
- stuaxo 16y agoWow, if I could only have sloppy focus I would be happy to take the dust off my mac mini.
- wtallis 16y agoIf command line work is such a large portion of what you do with your mac, why aren't you using X11?
- gurraman 16y agoBecause I don't like how X11.app behaves when tabbing in and out of it. And there are a few bugs in the version of X11 supplied by Apple. I have Arch Linux installed on a VirtualBox instance, but then it's the hassle of moving files between computers. I'll come up with something that works for me eventually, but right now Terminal.app is the best option.
- prashantv 16y agoI've been waiting for 256 colour support for so long. I've given up now though, and configured iTerm2 instead. iTerm2 also lets me use my mouse in vim over ssh, which is a nice bonus.
- gurraman 16y agoiTerm2. Interesting. iTerm(1) was really slow. I'll check the sequel out. Thank you for the tip!
- bobabooey 16y agoFrankly, I'd be _extremely_ happy if they just changed the damned Finder so that I can right-click a folder and create a new folder within it instead of placing it alphabetically so that I have to go find it and drag the new folder into the folder I want it in.
- elblanco 16y agoRegarding full-screen apps, I'd like to bring this old thread back up http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1721650 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1721650
- elai 16y agoThis shows an eventual long term direction of the iOS and OSX desktop/tablet/phone interface and business model merge.
- icco 16y agoIs anyone else incredibly amused that they are using the old version of the MacBook Air in their promos?
- parka 16y agoThe Mac App Store - I guess Dashboard apps will be going away? Launchpad - I firmly believe technology is to help save time. Launchpad doesn't do that. There's already an app called Quicksilver that will get your app opened, without you having to move the mouse or even swipe Full-screen apps - Great. But have an option not to go fullscreen as well. Not all apps need 1080p equivalent resolutions to work. Mission Control - Can't say anything much without using this. But meanwhile the CMD+Tab has been serving me very well. ---------------------------------- Voice recognition/Voice command, that's what I would like to see. The ability to launch apps or menu commands just by saying their name.
- rsbrown 16y agoI hope the Mac App Store is not "just like shopping the App Store on iPad", because I've found the organizational approach of the iPad App Store to be very frustrating.
- f7u12 16y ago2011, year of the Linux desktop