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Sure, C is great in its simplicity but the world has moved on to safer more powerful languages. Yes, I am referring to Rust, and yes, while it can be awkward an

Sure, C is great in its simplicity but the world has moved on to safer more powerful languages. Yes, I am referring to Rust, and yes, while it can be awkward and annoying sometimes with it's ownership lifetimes, as a professional it gives me great confidence to know that the next crash in the system will not be because of my code.

xfer 8y ago
> Sure, C is great in its simplicity but the world has moved on to safer more powerful languages No it hasn't and i am not so sure, it ever will. Good to hear that you have moved onto Rust, but that anecdata doesn't mean the world has moved on.
- noncoml 8y ago
  https://insights.stackoverflow.com/survey/2018 https://insights.stackoverflow.com/survey/2018
kahlonel 8y ago
I find it ironic that the "system" that you're writing Rust code for is entirely built in C :)
- kbenson 8y ago
  Not necessarily. While the Windows kernel is supposed to be written in C, my understanding is that the majority/almost all of the rest of the system is written in C++. Also, I think a good portion of OS X is/was written in Objective C, which some newer portion being written in Swift.
  - gnfurlong 8y ago
    Wasn't OSX originally a fork of FreeBSD? Parts of it may have been replaced over time, but I would think that a large portion is still written in C.
    - kbenson 8y ago
      I think the terminal includes a lot of GNU utilities, so that's likely true. That doesn't actually conflict with anything I said though. I'm sure the GUI code is quite large, given that the system is meant to be maintained and usable from entirely within that context.
    - platinumrad 8y ago
      OS X is basically the XNU kernel (written mostly in C) + the FreeBSD userland (written mostly in C) + a few GNU utilities (written mostly in C) + a bunch of Apple stuff like iTunes, Safari, etc. (Written mostly in C++ and Objective-C). It's not really a "fork" of FreeBSD.
      - pjmlp 8y ago
        NeXTSTEP drivers were written in Objective-C, and OS X drivers are written in a C++ subset.
coonery 8y ago
> but the world Oh Silicon Valley, you are not the world.
- kjeetgill 8y ago
  Hey, The Valley isn't that different. I wouldn't describe it as "moved on" either. There's are definitely more, better options than ever though.
qubax 8y ago
> Sure, C is great in its simplicity but the world has moved on to safer more powerful languages. Sure, we have more type safe languages. But I wouldn't call one language "more powerful" than another. Certainly Rust isn't "more powerful" than C. They are both turing complete and equally "powerful".
- chii 8y ago
  Most uses of the word powerful in this context actually refers to the expressiveness of the language and not the Turing completeness.
- noncoml 8y ago
  More powerful as in the expressive power. Sorry if that was not clear.
Shorel 8y ago
No, the world has not moved. Yet. And there's go. And there's D. And there's Nim. And there's modern C++. It has improved during the last decade, and keeps improving. It is still an open race with no clear winner.
- noncoml 8y ago
  I didn’t mean the world has moved to Rust. But other languages other than C. Java, Go, JS, Python, Ruby, etc..
  - Shorel 8y ago
    In that case... I think the world actually moved from C/C++ to Java 15 years ago. Then a segment of developers realized it still needed C++ and went back to it. C++ development feels more popular now than it was 10 years ago. And the language is certainly better than it was. Slow and 'productive' languages like Python and Ruby fill another niche and are not in direct competition. Only now with the popularity of Rust and go, there's something that C++ developers can move to, but somehow there's no clear answer. I personally prefer D instead of Rust. And I prefer C++ to Java.

xfer 8y ago

> Sure, C is great in its simplicity but the world has moved on to safer more powerful languages No it hasn't and i am not so sure, it ever will. Good to hear that you have moved onto Rust, but that anecdata doesn't mean the world has moved on.

noncoml 8y ago
https://insights.stackoverflow.com/survey/2018 https://insights.stackoverflow.com/survey/2018

kahlonel 8y ago

I find it ironic that the "system" that you're writing Rust code for is entirely built in C :)

kbenson 8y ago
Not necessarily. While the Windows kernel is supposed to be written in C, my understanding is that the majority/almost all of the rest of the system is written in C++. Also, I think a good portion of OS X is/was written in Objective C, which some newer portion being written in Swift.
- gnfurlong 8y ago
  Wasn't OSX originally a fork of FreeBSD? Parts of it may have been replaced over time, but I would think that a large portion is still written in C.
  - kbenson 8y ago
    I think the terminal includes a lot of GNU utilities, so that's likely true. That doesn't actually conflict with anything I said though. I'm sure the GUI code is quite large, given that the system is meant to be maintained and usable from entirely within that context.
  - platinumrad 8y ago
    OS X is basically the XNU kernel (written mostly in C) + the FreeBSD userland (written mostly in C) + a few GNU utilities (written mostly in C) + a bunch of Apple stuff like iTunes, Safari, etc. (Written mostly in C++ and Objective-C). It's not really a "fork" of FreeBSD.
    - pjmlp 8y ago
      NeXTSTEP drivers were written in Objective-C, and OS X drivers are written in a C++ subset.

coonery 8y ago

> but the world Oh Silicon Valley, you are not the world.

kjeetgill 8y ago
Hey, The Valley isn't that different. I wouldn't describe it as "moved on" either. There's are definitely more, better options than ever though.

qubax 8y ago

> Sure, C is great in its simplicity but the world has moved on to safer more powerful languages. Sure, we have more type safe languages. But I wouldn't call one language "more powerful" than another. Certainly Rust isn't "more powerful" than C. They are both turing complete and equally "powerful".

chii 8y ago
Most uses of the word powerful in this context actually refers to the expressiveness of the language and not the Turing completeness.
noncoml 8y ago
More powerful as in the expressive power. Sorry if that was not clear.

Shorel 8y ago

No, the world has not moved. Yet. And there's go. And there's D. And there's Nim. And there's modern C++. It has improved during the last decade, and keeps improving. It is still an open race with no clear winner.

noncoml 8y ago
I didn’t mean the world has moved to Rust. But other languages other than C. Java, Go, JS, Python, Ruby, etc..
- Shorel 8y ago
  In that case... I think the world actually moved from C/C++ to Java 15 years ago. Then a segment of developers realized it still needed C++ and went back to it. C++ development feels more popular now than it was 10 years ago. And the language is certainly better than it was. Slow and 'productive' languages like Python and Ruby fill another niche and are not in direct competition. Only now with the popularity of Rust and go, there's something that C++ developers can move to, but somehow there's no clear answer. I personally prefer D instead of Rust. And I prefer C++ to Java.