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"Compared to students who reported sleeping eight hours at night, high school students who slept less than six hours were twice as likely to self-report using a
by wojtekkru 8y ago
"Compared to students who reported sleeping eight hours at night, high school students who slept less than six hours were twice as likely to self-report using alcohol, tobacco, marijuana or other drugs, and driving after drinking alcohol. They were also nearly twice as likely to report carrying a weapon or being in a fight."
Have they established causation? Or could it be that lifestyle including alcohol and weapons also happens to involve less sleep?
- crunchlibrarian 8y agoBased on nothing but my own personal experience when I get tired I get cranky and more truthful, so the sole factor could be nothing but more people filling out the survey honestly. I'm only half joking.
- astrodust 8y agoThe "I'll sleep when I'm dead" generation.
- make3 8y agoYouTube & Twitch may end up having really bad effect on society because of the effect on sleep they potentially have
- astrodust 8y agoYouTube, Facebook and others are basically social cancer. Remember when they thought putting asbestos in everything and smoking everywhere were great ideas? This "social all the things" strategy reminds me a lot of 1950s America where plastic, fiberglass, and pesticides were going to cure all problems if only you used liberal amounts of it in everything.
- QuercusMax 8y ago"Facebook is a Toilet" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJCJyYtE9Rw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJCJyYtE9Rw) - from Last Week Tonight.
- TheTrotters 8y agoI think it’s the laptops and, especially, smartphones. If it weren’t for YouTube and Twitch we’d find a different way of wasting time.
- nrb 8y agoYeah seems obvious that kids from rough homes don’t get enough sleep.
- loco5niner 8y agoIt could also be an indication of the lack of parental involvement in their lives.
- taneq 8y agoYeah, "kids sleep less and do more risky stuff without parental guidance/boundaries".
- skadamat 8y ago"Compared to students who reported sleeping eight hours at night, high school students who slept less than six hours were twice as likely to self-report using alcohol, tobacco, marijuana or other drugs, and driving after drinking alcohol. They were also nearly twice as likely to report carrying a weapon or being in a fight. Researchers found the strongest associations were related to mood and self- harm. Those who slept less than six hours were more than three times as likely to consider or attempt suicide, and four times as likely to attempt suicide, resulting in treatment. Only 30 percent of the students in the study reported averaging more than eight hours of sleep on school nights." Seems like a lot of data mining to create correlations (hence the use of the word "association" a lot). This kind of work can be good for problem finding and hypothesis generation. It's unfortunate that we live in a world where: - news outlets publish research that is meant to stimulate discussion + hypothesis exploration - readers are unable, undereducated, and / or disempowered to discern the level of rigorous science examination done EDIT: The funny thing is that I predict that this HN thread will lead hundreds of folks to tell stories of confirmation bias.
- fasquoika 8y ago>Those who slept less than six hours were more than three times as likely to consider or attempt suicide, and four times as likely to attempt suicide, resulting in treatment. Considering that insomnia is a common symptom of depression, this really shouldn't be remotely surprising Edit: I'd bet you'd find a similar correlation with students that sleep more than 12 hours a day too
- stephengillie 8y agoSleeping too much is also a common symptom of depression, as the user abuses sleep to escape their life.
- zentiggr 8y agoFor serious depression issues, I'm not sure 'abuse' is appropriate here... The inability to _want_ to do anything or _care_ often isn't a conscious choice.
- make3 8y ago"self reported" Maybe the interpretation could be that less sleep makes people more honest :p
- savanaly 8y agoAnother way of wording the finding is "students who engage in activities that adults don't approve of found to also go to sleep at a time adults don't approve of."
- TheTrotters 8y agoThere’s no reference to going to sleep at a particular time.
- savanaly 8y agoFair enough. s/go to sleep at a time/have sleeping habits/ Although I somehow doubt the parents' issue is their kids go to bed promptly at eleven but then insist on getting up at five in the morning.
- philipodonnell 8y agoThose missing 2 hours of sleep are probably from going to bed 2 hours later, though, which is a pretty specific time.
- AnimalMuppet 8y agoFrom going to bed 2 hours later, and being unable to get up two hours later, because school starts at a nice early time.
- AnimalMuppet 8y agoThe point isn't the time that they go to sleep. The point is the amount of time that they stay asleep. And suicide, for instance, is a bit more than just "activities that adults don't approve of". It's self-evidently harmful.
- Symmetry 8y agoWell, there's pretty good controlled experimental evidence that lack of sleep causes impulsivity. But obviously causality works the other way too and this study doesn't help us know how much of these effects would go away if, say, high school start times were pushed back and how much would persist which is what we're really interested in.
- adamnemecek 8y agoIt could be cortisol. I've been researching the effects of this hormone and it's kind of crazy. It's the hormone that regulates stress, fat deposits, memory and a lot of other things.
- amelius 8y agoQuestions like this always pop up, and correlate highly with people who didn't read the article.
- philipodonnell 8y agoI would think that fighting, alochol and other drugs are being consumed by 6 hour sleepers during the two hours that the 8 hour sleepers are... asleep.
- lsiebert 8y agoThere is also the possibility that a third variable contributes to both. Like maybe a stressful family life or living in a city (louder at night, more access to drugs) causes teens to be more likely to use drugs and to sleep less.
- GreeniFi 8y agoThe confusion of causation and correlation is often presented as a bug in the human operating system. It’s definitely a mistake here and you are right to point it out. But I sometimes wonder if the bug in the human cognitive process is (not mistaking causation vs correlation) but actually that we attribute greater weight to conclusions presented as science, even when they are bad science. We - rightly - trust the scientific process, more than for example testimony or hearsay. Disreputable scientists hack this heuristic to pass bad science as fact.
- 8bitsrule 8y agoHmmm. As a former grades 8-12 educator, if I were to observe 'risky teen behavior' I'd first want to talk to their parents and to ascertain their (compulsory) school environment. Adolescents have enough to worry about (which they're good at), and their need for a caring support structure is a paramount concern. Experimentation is natural and healthy for them, within limits.