4 ms·

>>It ruined the vacation for me, and I've stopped visiting Canada because of how disgusted I felt afterwards. I don't blame you for this at all, but I will say

by patmcc 8y ago

>>It ruined the vacation for me, and I've stopped visiting Canada because of how disgusted I felt afterwards. I don't blame you for this at all, but I will say this is bi-directional; as a Canadian, when I travel to the US, I get the same bullshit questioning and phone snooping on occasion. The current controversy on border crossing is that, despite marijuana becoming legalized in Canada shortly, if you admit to smoking it when asked, you'll be barred from entering the US. So seems to me that both countries just love love love the opportunity to flex their power against people who have no recourse. If you want to see what cops do when they don't have to follow any rules on unreasonable searches, probable cause, reasonable suspicion, etc. then just look to our borders. I wish our governments could get together and sort this junk out, but that would mean both agencies would have to lose some of their power to "secure the border" so it'll never go anywhere.

ALittleLight 8y ago
Now I want to go to Canada repeatedly just to get them to try to decrypt my phone. "You know, I don't recall the darn password. I'll just go have a seat while you do your thing." I'd be interested to know if they could!
- wool_gather 8y ago
  Best case result of this is you sitting there for several hours, and then them deciding to seize the device anyways.
- flycaliguy 8y ago
  It might be fun to include some variety . Hotel reservations all stored on Minidisc. Family photos on zip drives.
  - Nition 8y ago
    A 5¼ inch floppy disk has gotta be pretty good "security" at the border in 2018.
  - marcosdumay 8y ago
    Make sure the zip disk has the click of death.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
- rdtsc 8y ago
  It would be interesting. However those people can vindictive and if you fall in their crosshairs they can ruin your life. I wouldn't mess with them just because at least.
- tamrix 8y ago
  They won't. They'll just keep the phone and send you on your way. You might be lucky if you get it back in 4 months likely never.
  - nextlevelwizard 8y ago
    In civilized countries stealing is against the law...
    - freeflight 8y ago
      Civilized countries just call it something else, like "civil forfeiture", and then make it the "law". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_forfeiture_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_forfeiture_in_the_United...
YZF 8y ago
My experience is that entering Canada is a little less of a problem and that it's only become more of a problem due to pressure on the Canadians from the US to beef up their border security or else. The more strict checks seem to apply both to Canadians and non-Canadians. And entering Canada, the law is not actually suspended at the border and its vicinity .. unlike some other places. That said I've travelled dozens of times in a multitude of ports of entries and the vast majority of people have no problem, they're not searched, they're not detained. I haven't seen anyone standing in front of me in line have a problem either. You can avoid 99% of the problem by being polite, answering questions truthfully, and treating the border guards with respect. Yeah, it sucks if they have a bad day and they're rude to you or they ask you invasive questions, just play along and be nice. You'll be fine. If you are suspicious or if you piss them off they will potentially make your day very very bad. All that said, I think the land border between the US and Canada should just be open. By the way, you can also go on vacation without a phone ;) disconnecting will make your vacation better!
- Buge 8y ago
  > And entering Canada, the law is not actually suspended at the border and its vicinity So police in Canada can demand your unlocked phone at any point, not just at the border?
  - YZF 8y ago
    Well, possibly. My point is that in Canada, at least on paper "Everyone has the right to be secure against unreasonable search or seizure.". Now obviously this is always work in progress and there are situations where asserting your rights is a problem, but people should follow up on these incidents and they do have recourse. Unlike some other places. http://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/csj-sjc/rfc-dlc/ccrf-ccdl/check/art8.html http://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/csj-sjc/rfc-dlc/ccrf-ccdl/check... "The context of the search, and the activity that brings a person into contact with the state, can have an impact on the person’s reasonable expectation of privacy." ... "The degree of personal privacy expected at borders, where travellers expect to be searched, is lower than in other enforcement situations (R. v. Simmons, [1988] 2 S.C.R. 495 at page 528; Monney at paragraph 34; R. v. Jacques, [1996] 3 S.C.R. 312 at paragraph 18). The expectation of privacy is reduced in the school setting in relation to the responsibility of teachers and other school authorities to provide a safe environment and maintain order and discipline in the school (M.(M.R.)). Prisons carry a decreased expectation of privacy (Weatherall; R. v. Conway, [1989] 1 S.C.R. 1659). However, the lowered expectation of privacy within a prison does not allow the seizure without a warrant of bodily samples taken as part of a medical examination (R. v. Dorfer (1996), 104 C.C.C. (3d) 528 (B.C.C.A.))."

by patmcc 8y ago

ALittleLight 8y ago

Now I want to go to Canada repeatedly just to get them to try to decrypt my phone. "You know, I don't recall the darn password. I'll just go have a seat while you do your thing." I'd be interested to know if they could!

wool_gather 8y ago
Best case result of this is you sitting there for several hours, and then them deciding to seize the device anyways.
flycaliguy 8y ago
It might be fun to include some variety . Hotel reservations all stored on Minidisc. Family photos on zip drives.
- Nition 8y ago
  A 5¼ inch floppy disk has gotta be pretty good "security" at the border in 2018.
- marcosdumay 8y ago
  Make sure the zip disk has the click of death.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
rdtsc 8y ago
It would be interesting. However those people can vindictive and if you fall in their crosshairs they can ruin your life. I wouldn't mess with them just because at least.
tamrix 8y ago
They won't. They'll just keep the phone and send you on your way. You might be lucky if you get it back in 4 months likely never.
- nextlevelwizard 8y ago
  In civilized countries stealing is against the law...
  - freeflight 8y ago
    Civilized countries just call it something else, like "civil forfeiture", and then make it the "law". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_forfeiture_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_forfeiture_in_the_United...

YZF 8y ago

My experience is that entering Canada is a little less of a problem and that it's only become more of a problem due to pressure on the Canadians from the US to beef up their border security or else. The more strict checks seem to apply both to Canadians and non-Canadians. And entering Canada, the law is not actually suspended at the border and its vicinity .. unlike some other places. That said I've travelled dozens of times in a multitude of ports of entries and the vast majority of people have no problem, they're not searched, they're not detained. I haven't seen anyone standing in front of me in line have a problem either. You can avoid 99% of the problem by being polite, answering questions truthfully, and treating the border guards with respect. Yeah, it sucks if they have a bad day and they're rude to you or they ask you invasive questions, just play along and be nice. You'll be fine. If you are suspicious or if you piss them off they will potentially make your day very very bad. All that said, I think the land border between the US and Canada should just be open. By the way, you can also go on vacation without a phone ;) disconnecting will make your vacation better!

Buge 8y ago
> And entering Canada, the law is not actually suspended at the border and its vicinity So police in Canada can demand your unlocked phone at any point, not just at the border?
- YZF 8y ago
  Well, possibly. My point is that in Canada, at least on paper "Everyone has the right to be secure against unreasonable search or seizure.". Now obviously this is always work in progress and there are situations where asserting your rights is a problem, but people should follow up on these incidents and they do have recourse. Unlike some other places. http://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/csj-sjc/rfc-dlc/ccrf-ccdl/check/art8.html http://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/csj-sjc/rfc-dlc/ccrf-ccdl/check... "The context of the search, and the activity that brings a person into contact with the state, can have an impact on the person’s reasonable expectation of privacy." ... "The degree of personal privacy expected at borders, where travellers expect to be searched, is lower than in other enforcement situations (R. v. Simmons, [1988] 2 S.C.R. 495 at page 528; Monney at paragraph 34; R. v. Jacques, [1996] 3 S.C.R. 312 at paragraph 18). The expectation of privacy is reduced in the school setting in relation to the responsibility of teachers and other school authorities to provide a safe environment and maintain order and discipline in the school (M.(M.R.)). Prisons carry a decreased expectation of privacy (Weatherall; R. v. Conway, [1989] 1 S.C.R. 1659). However, the lowered expectation of privacy within a prison does not allow the seizure without a warrant of bodily samples taken as part of a medical examination (R. v. Dorfer (1996), 104 C.C.C. (3d) 528 (B.C.C.A.))."