4 ms·

Like Popcorn Time?

laumars 8y ago
I know it can be done via bittorrent. Anything can be hacked to do anything if you're motivated enough. However the question asked was whether it's good enough for paying customers in a commercial environment (ie Netflix). That's a very different set of expectations.
- krageon 8y ago
  Popcorn time when I looked at it has consistently given me performance at least as good as Netflix (which tends to downgrade quality for bad reasons - I have very fast fiber and my ISP has good peering - and has a client that can't seem to stop desyncing audio). The only reason not to use it is arguable legality and the fact that content creators deserve money. It's definitely not quality of service.
  - laumars 8y ago
    If you're on a really fast internet connection where your ISP doesn't throttle P2P (many do in the UK) then I wouldn't be surprised that you'd get good results from Popcorn Time. The issue is whether that is consistently true for people on slower internet connections, connections with QoS or other traffic shaping methods against P2P, and those who stream on lower end hardware (old laptops / phones) or embedded devices (Amazon Firestick or smart TVs). This is where RMTP streams really shine through - they offer the performance (at the client level) and flexibility (quick swapping between bitrates within 15 seconds of chunked video) to maximize the video quality per client. As for why Netflix doesn't look to great on your connection, I can only speculate there but the reasons might be more down to congestion on your local Netflix cache server or your ISP itself than RMTP streams being inferior to BitTorrent.
    - krageon 8y ago
      I have a good provider that gives me what I pay for, yes. I understand that many countries have a borderline third-world internet situation, but that has very little to do with the problem you were presenting. What you're talking about here is essentially that Netflix has the lobbying power to make sure that it's services are put above other services in countries vulnerable to that kind of manipulation. I believe that instantly. I can understand what you're talking about, but I think it's important to appreciate that as an end user I don't really care about what tech words I can tell myself about why things look bad. I care that one thing looks bad and the other does not.
      - laumars 8y ago
        I don't think you understand point. I'm not just talking about "borderline third-world internet" situations. I'm talking about watching stuff on embedded devices, on public WiFi, on older harder or on your cell phone while out and about. I'm also not talking about Netflix's lobbying power. My point is quite simply that RMTP is already a better protocol for video delivery than BT. Yes Popcorn Time exist and in some situations it is comparable to Netflix, but not in all situations. In fact not even in most situations. BT wouldn't allow you to deliver to other providers such as YouTube or Twitch (this is something I was working on last week with RMTP streams). BT wouldn't allow you to dynamically inject ads separate to the video feed (this means you'd need to encode your adverts into the video file so you cannot charge different rates for different days or viewing times - which is a deal breaker for most broadcasters). BT wouldn't work for live feeds (so it would be useless for sporting events - which is what generates a large chunk of broadcasting revenue). BT is noisier than RMTP at the ISP level (ie it actually costs ISP more bandwidth not less - and given how much many ISPs are already complaining about Netflix et al, the last thing you need to is expect those ISPs to offer Netflix free bandwidth in for the form of user seeding). As you can see the point I was making right from the start isn't that you cannot stream video via BT but rather that there are already better protocols for video delivery than BitTorrent. Hence why professional video delivery platforms don't use BT. I suspect the issue many commenters on here have is they assume that traditional video delivery is still a classic straight stream of data like the old days and like people are familiar with when downloading via HTTP or FTP. But that's simply not how RMTP works. Modern video feeds are actually chunked just like BT is, except that it's feed from a CDN rather than peered from end users.

Like Popcorn Time?

I know it can be done via bittorrent. Anything can be hacked to do anything if you're motivated enough. However the question asked was whether it's good enough for paying customers in a commercial environment (ie Netflix). That's a very different set of expectations.

krageon 8y ago
Popcorn time when I looked at it has consistently given me performance at least as good as Netflix (which tends to downgrade quality for bad reasons - I have very fast fiber and my ISP has good peering - and has a client that can't seem to stop desyncing audio). The only reason not to use it is arguable legality and the fact that content creators deserve money. It's definitely not quality of service.
- laumars 8y ago
  If you're on a really fast internet connection where your ISP doesn't throttle P2P (many do in the UK) then I wouldn't be surprised that you'd get good results from Popcorn Time. The issue is whether that is consistently true for people on slower internet connections, connections with QoS or other traffic shaping methods against P2P, and those who stream on lower end hardware (old laptops / phones) or embedded devices (Amazon Firestick or smart TVs). This is where RMTP streams really shine through - they offer the performance (at the client level) and flexibility (quick swapping between bitrates within 15 seconds of chunked video) to maximize the video quality per client. As for why Netflix doesn't look to great on your connection, I can only speculate there but the reasons might be more down to congestion on your local Netflix cache server or your ISP itself than RMTP streams being inferior to BitTorrent.
  - krageon 8y ago
    I have a good provider that gives me what I pay for, yes. I understand that many countries have a borderline third-world internet situation, but that has very little to do with the problem you were presenting. What you're talking about here is essentially that Netflix has the lobbying power to make sure that it's services are put above other services in countries vulnerable to that kind of manipulation. I believe that instantly. I can understand what you're talking about, but I think it's important to appreciate that as an end user I don't really care about what tech words I can tell myself about why things look bad. I care that one thing looks bad and the other does not.
    - laumars 8y ago
      I don't think you understand point. I'm not just talking about "borderline third-world internet" situations. I'm talking about watching stuff on embedded devices, on public WiFi, on older harder or on your cell phone while out and about. I'm also not talking about Netflix's lobbying power. My point is quite simply that RMTP is already a better protocol for video delivery than BT. Yes Popcorn Time exist and in some situations it is comparable to Netflix, but not in all situations. In fact not even in most situations. BT wouldn't allow you to deliver to other providers such as YouTube or Twitch (this is something I was working on last week with RMTP streams). BT wouldn't allow you to dynamically inject ads separate to the video feed (this means you'd need to encode your adverts into the video file so you cannot charge different rates for different days or viewing times - which is a deal breaker for most broadcasters). BT wouldn't work for live feeds (so it would be useless for sporting events - which is what generates a large chunk of broadcasting revenue). BT is noisier than RMTP at the ISP level (ie it actually costs ISP more bandwidth not less - and given how much many ISPs are already complaining about Netflix et al, the last thing you need to is expect those ISPs to offer Netflix free bandwidth in for the form of user seeding). As you can see the point I was making right from the start isn't that you cannot stream video via BT but rather that there are already better protocols for video delivery than BitTorrent. Hence why professional video delivery platforms don't use BT. I suspect the issue many commenters on here have is they assume that traditional video delivery is still a classic straight stream of data like the old days and like people are familiar with when downloading via HTTP or FTP. But that's simply not how RMTP works. Modern video feeds are actually chunked just like BT is, except that it's feed from a CDN rather than peered from end users.