4 ms·

What about killing to protect others, as part of your duty? I'd argue that not killing certain bad people is an immoral choice in itself, designed to absolve o

What about killing to protect others, as part of your duty? I'd argue that not killing certain bad people is an immoral choice in itself, designed to absolve one's of responsibility at a great price to others. "We sleep soundly in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm"

jobigoud 8y ago
You just need to incapacitate them not kill them.
- nradov 8y ago
  That's not a viable option. There is no such thing as a truly effective non-lethal weapon.
GordonS 8y ago
> What about killing to protect others, as part of your duty? How do you know if it's really going to protect others? How do you know you can trust the motives of those that say "it's all to keep us safe?". Did the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan (which let's not forget, also gave rise to IS) really save more people than if we hadn't gone to war? Given the numbers killed, I very much doubt it. Overthrowing democratically elected governments, murdering leaders, drone strikes on hospitals, Abu Graib, Guantanamo Bay... are these really the actions of a benevolent leadership? > "We sleep soundly in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm" Churchill, I think? Those were rather different times, and Hitler's armies were a very different threat to those we're told we've faced since and now. These days, our leaders speak much the same words, but I like it would be naive to believe them.
- dagw 8y ago
  Churchill, I think? According to Quote Investigator[0] it's actually Richard Grenier of the Washington Times (not to be confused with the Washington Post) paraphrasing something he believed Orwell might have said. [0]https://quoteinvestigator.com/2011/11/07/rough-men/ https://quoteinvestigator.com/2011/11/07/rough-men/
  - GordonS 8y ago
    Hah, I got that a bit wrong then!
    - dagw 8y ago
      The basic sentiment has been around since at least the 1890s, and Orwell did during and after WWII criticize pacifism by essentially saying that the only reason you even can be a pacifist is because people that aren't pacifist are willing to protect you. But that particular phrasing is modern.

jobigoud 8y ago

You just need to incapacitate them not kill them.

nradov 8y ago
That's not a viable option. There is no such thing as a truly effective non-lethal weapon.

GordonS 8y ago

> What about killing to protect others, as part of your duty? How do you know if it's really going to protect others? How do you know you can trust the motives of those that say "it's all to keep us safe?". Did the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan (which let's not forget, also gave rise to IS) really save more people than if we hadn't gone to war? Given the numbers killed, I very much doubt it. Overthrowing democratically elected governments, murdering leaders, drone strikes on hospitals, Abu Graib, Guantanamo Bay... are these really the actions of a benevolent leadership? > "We sleep soundly in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm" Churchill, I think? Those were rather different times, and Hitler's armies were a very different threat to those we're told we've faced since and now. These days, our leaders speak much the same words, but I like it would be naive to believe them.

dagw 8y ago
Churchill, I think? According to Quote Investigator[0] it's actually Richard Grenier of the Washington Times (not to be confused with the Washington Post) paraphrasing something he believed Orwell might have said. [0]https://quoteinvestigator.com/2011/11/07/rough-men/ https://quoteinvestigator.com/2011/11/07/rough-men/
- GordonS 8y ago
  Hah, I got that a bit wrong then!
  - dagw 8y ago
    The basic sentiment has been around since at least the 1890s, and Orwell did during and after WWII criticize pacifism by essentially saying that the only reason you even can be a pacifist is because people that aren't pacifist are willing to protect you. But that particular phrasing is modern.