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it says in this article that the fuel theft is cheaper and easier, and one former cartel member says it makes as much money as drugs >their market and margin i

it says in this article that the fuel theft is cheaper and easier, and one former cartel member says it makes as much money as drugs >their market and margin is much smaller you think there's a smaller market for gasoline than drugs?

glennpratt 8y ago
*stolen gasoline
marcosdumay 8y ago
It's not smaller, it's more constrained. Gasoline prices don't shoot up when the government organizes a big crime fighting initiative. I would bet the interviewed people are not correctly accounting for their risks.
pier25 8y ago
For illegal gasoline? Yeah totally. Buying illegal gasoline only makes sense for some individuals in transportation because in Mexico there is no fiscalization on a large portion of the economy (street vendors for example). Big transportation companies couldn't do it. They need to justify expenses, get invoices, etc. A couple of years back it was easy to get fake invoices since everything was on paper, but there was a reform in 2016 and now all invoices are electronically signed by the Mexican IRS.
- 2_listerine_pls 8y ago
  Actually, most of the stolen gasoline is purchased by gas stations.
  - ASalazarMX 8y ago
    By some gas stations. Locals know which of them and who's the owner, usually someone untouchable by local authorities because they're in cahoots. Organized crime isn't thriving because authorities don't have intelligence, it's thriving because it has greased the surrounding gears.
    - 2_listerine_pls 8y ago
      > some gas stations. In some cities, most gas stations are forced to buy from them. > Locals know which of them and who's the owner Why would they know?
      - ASalazarMX 8y ago
        You can't really have a gas station and not declare who are you buying your product from, not even in Mexico. The ones that get away with it have links to organized crime, colluded with the authorities. And the locals know because the cartels use those stations to fill their tanks for free, and they do that in convoy. At least it was like that 10 years ago, maybe the cartels are more discrete now.
- ryanmarsh 8y ago
  Many US truck drivers are owner-operators. They pay their own taxes and only have to keep driver logs. They are audited as often as the average American. Buying stolen gasoline is a no brainer.
  - pier25 8y ago
    Sure, but do you think the number of taxi and truck drivers is larger than the number of drug users? Also, do you think the profits are so big that gangs would fight for territory to be able to sell illegal gasoline? I seriously doubt it.
    - nyolfen 8y ago
      >They found it extremely profitable, with no need to smuggle the product across the increasingly militarized U.S. border, and with a much broader market than illegal drugs. “Everybody needs gasoline,” El Polkas says. “You’re always going to have customers. Especially when it’s cheap.”
      - nyolfen 8y ago
        i guess my eyes skipped over this the first time, but: >Also, do you think the profits are so big that gangs would fight for territory to be able to sell illegal gasoline? the article says this very thing in fact occurs!
  - exabrial 8y ago
    *Diesel
  - GordonS 8y ago
    If gasoline theft was to become prevelant in the US, surely the authorities and regulators would be in a much better position to take action than those in Mexico? (Mexico less so, largely because the cartels were borne into existence because of the prohibition of drugs) Also, isn't being an owner-operator a good reason to play by the rules? By using stolen fuel you'd be risking a very expensive asset, and indeed your livelihood.
kumarvvr 8y ago
There is a smaller market, definitely. Most average Joes don't want to take the risk of filling their cars with questionable gasoline. For people like truckers, etc, if stolen gasoline is not immediately available, they will pump from a gas station. You cannot get addicted to gasoline.

glennpratt 8y ago

*stolen gasoline

marcosdumay 8y ago

It's not smaller, it's more constrained. Gasoline prices don't shoot up when the government organizes a big crime fighting initiative. I would bet the interviewed people are not correctly accounting for their risks.

pier25 8y ago

For illegal gasoline? Yeah totally. Buying illegal gasoline only makes sense for some individuals in transportation because in Mexico there is no fiscalization on a large portion of the economy (street vendors for example). Big transportation companies couldn't do it. They need to justify expenses, get invoices, etc. A couple of years back it was easy to get fake invoices since everything was on paper, but there was a reform in 2016 and now all invoices are electronically signed by the Mexican IRS.

2_listerine_pls 8y ago
Actually, most of the stolen gasoline is purchased by gas stations.
- ASalazarMX 8y ago
  By some gas stations. Locals know which of them and who's the owner, usually someone untouchable by local authorities because they're in cahoots. Organized crime isn't thriving because authorities don't have intelligence, it's thriving because it has greased the surrounding gears.
  - 2_listerine_pls 8y ago
    > some gas stations. In some cities, most gas stations are forced to buy from them. > Locals know which of them and who's the owner Why would they know?
    - ASalazarMX 8y ago
      You can't really have a gas station and not declare who are you buying your product from, not even in Mexico. The ones that get away with it have links to organized crime, colluded with the authorities. And the locals know because the cartels use those stations to fill their tanks for free, and they do that in convoy. At least it was like that 10 years ago, maybe the cartels are more discrete now.
ryanmarsh 8y ago
Many US truck drivers are owner-operators. They pay their own taxes and only have to keep driver logs. They are audited as often as the average American. Buying stolen gasoline is a no brainer.
- pier25 8y ago
  Sure, but do you think the number of taxi and truck drivers is larger than the number of drug users? Also, do you think the profits are so big that gangs would fight for territory to be able to sell illegal gasoline? I seriously doubt it.
  - nyolfen 8y ago
    >They found it extremely profitable, with no need to smuggle the product across the increasingly militarized U.S. border, and with a much broader market than illegal drugs. “Everybody needs gasoline,” El Polkas says. “You’re always going to have customers. Especially when it’s cheap.”
    - nyolfen 8y ago
      i guess my eyes skipped over this the first time, but: >Also, do you think the profits are so big that gangs would fight for territory to be able to sell illegal gasoline? the article says this very thing in fact occurs!
- exabrial 8y ago
  *Diesel
- GordonS 8y ago
  If gasoline theft was to become prevelant in the US, surely the authorities and regulators would be in a much better position to take action than those in Mexico? (Mexico less so, largely because the cartels were borne into existence because of the prohibition of drugs) Also, isn't being an owner-operator a good reason to play by the rules? By using stolen fuel you'd be risking a very expensive asset, and indeed your livelihood.

kumarvvr 8y ago

There is a smaller market, definitely. Most average Joes don't want to take the risk of filling their cars with questionable gasoline. For people like truckers, etc, if stolen gasoline is not immediately available, they will pump from a gas station. You cannot get addicted to gasoline.