4 ms·

Similar abuses are happening here in Canada too. They really have to forbid profs names to appear on student papers. It would remove a lot of the incentive.

liftbigweights 8y ago
It's probably the same in canada and the UK, but academic advancement in the US has just as much to do with personal relationship as with merit. How much your professors like you and who they know is essential for how you progress within academia. Beyond recommendation letters, it's your professor's access to the academic network ( lab openings, research opportunities, etc ) and other jealously guarded opportunities. These professors are truly gatekeepers to your success. "After graduation, Zhang had a hard time finding an academic position. In a 2013 interview with Nautilus magazine, Zhang said he did not get a job after graduation. "During that period it was difficult to find a job in academics. That was a job market problem. Also, my advisor did not write me letters of recommendation." The reason behind this is that Zhang's research pointed out the mistakes made by his advisor Tzuong-Tsieng Moh's previous work. Moh was very unhappy with this and refused to write the job recommendation letter for Zhang.[11] Zhang made this claim again in George Csicsery’s documentary film Counting From Infinity while discussing his difficulties at Purdue and in the years that followed." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yitang_Zhang https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yitang_Zhang
majos 8y ago
What? The goal of a PhD is to train somebody to be a researcher and collaborator. The best way to do this is to collaborate with them on research. Collaborators deserve authorship. I understand that many labs are hierarchical with ideas solely handed down from top to bottom, but removing advisor authorship is a big step.
- api 8y ago
  The problem is that sometimes the ideas flow from bottom to top while the credit is top to bottom.
- quickben 8y ago
  And thus, we are in the present conundrum: Some profs are decent human beings, and the system runs. Some profs are sociopaths, and the system gets abused. Other fields got their rules in place because of above. It is not fair to the profs that are decent human beings, but, ignoring the second point, makes it unfair to a lot more students that go through it.
deleted 8y ago
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liftbigweights 8y ago

It's probably the same in canada and the UK, but academic advancement in the US has just as much to do with personal relationship as with merit. How much your professors like you and who they know is essential for how you progress within academia. Beyond recommendation letters, it's your professor's access to the academic network ( lab openings, research opportunities, etc ) and other jealously guarded opportunities. These professors are truly gatekeepers to your success. "After graduation, Zhang had a hard time finding an academic position. In a 2013 interview with Nautilus magazine, Zhang said he did not get a job after graduation. "During that period it was difficult to find a job in academics. That was a job market problem. Also, my advisor did not write me letters of recommendation." The reason behind this is that Zhang's research pointed out the mistakes made by his advisor Tzuong-Tsieng Moh's previous work. Moh was very unhappy with this and refused to write the job recommendation letter for Zhang.[11] Zhang made this claim again in George Csicsery’s documentary film Counting From Infinity while discussing his difficulties at Purdue and in the years that followed." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yitang_Zhang https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yitang_Zhang

majos 8y ago

What? The goal of a PhD is to train somebody to be a researcher and collaborator. The best way to do this is to collaborate with them on research. Collaborators deserve authorship. I understand that many labs are hierarchical with ideas solely handed down from top to bottom, but removing advisor authorship is a big step.

api 8y ago
The problem is that sometimes the ideas flow from bottom to top while the credit is top to bottom.
quickben 8y ago
And thus, we are in the present conundrum: Some profs are decent human beings, and the system runs. Some profs are sociopaths, and the system gets abused. Other fields got their rules in place because of above. It is not fair to the profs that are decent human beings, but, ignoring the second point, makes it unfair to a lot more students that go through it.

deleted 8y ago

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