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I think it's probably closer to 1 million barrels/day if you factor in all the emissions and pollutants associated with mining the nickel/lithium for the batter

by debt 8y ago

I think it's probably closer to 1 million barrels/day if you factor in all the emissions and pollutants associated with mining the nickel/lithium for the batteries. https://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/2017/aug/24/nickel-mining-hidden-environmental-cost-electric-cars-batteries https://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/2017/aug/24...

anoncoward111 8y ago
I always love when people thing manufactured goods are made from thin air and otherwise renewable resources :)
- murukesh_s 8y ago
  How about power generation from non renewable sources? Like coal or gas plants
  - kitsunesoba 8y ago
    Even if your EV is charged using a dirty power source, it’s still a net benefit to the environment. ICE vehicles are hideously inefficient compared to power plants, which have much better ratios of produced energy to consumed fuel. Those dirty power plants can also be replaced by clean power plants, instantly making all the EVs they’re charging dramatically cleaner. A dirty ICE vehicle is always going to be a dirty ICE vehicle, no matter what.
    - murukesh_s 8y ago
      Good points! >ICE vehicles are hideously inefficient compared to power plants. Any source for that? I was wondering about power transmission losses as well.
Pica_soO 8y ago
If you love your environment, you drive the oldest available running rust bucket. Manufacturing a car produces 50% of the emissions it has during its lifetime. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/green-living-blog/2010/sep/23/carbon-footprint-new-car https://www.theguardian.com/environment/green-living-blog/20...
AnthonyMouse 8y ago
> I think it's probably closer to 1 million barrels/day if you factor in all the emissions and pollutants associated with mining the nickel/lithium for the batteries. This is the same type of argument erroneously used against nuclear -- factoring in costs in one place but not the other. As though internal combustion engines, transmissions, radiators, exhaust systems with rare metal catalysts, etc. are not made of raw materials that have to be mined and processed. The curb weight of a Model 3 is on the same order as a Ford Taurus or BMW 3 series.
- debt 8y ago
  They to mine way more Earth for this rare Earth mineral batteries.
  - AnthonyMouse 8y ago
    As opposed to, say, aluminum, which consumes so much electricity to produce that it amounts to ~3% of the world electrical generating capacity and producers have resorted to building their own power plants at the site of the smelting operation. There is also the question of how much longer lithium mining will have to continue at this pace, since in a few years there will obviously be a dense source of lithium for new batteries in the form of all the old batteries that can be recycled.
F_r_k 8y ago
I loved that you "think", but the reality is that you just don't know at all
- dang 8y ago
  Incivility like this and in your previous comment will get you banned on Hacker News. Please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and follow the rules when posting here.

by debt 8y ago

anoncoward111 8y ago

I always love when people thing manufactured goods are made from thin air and otherwise renewable resources :)

murukesh_s 8y ago
How about power generation from non renewable sources? Like coal or gas plants
- kitsunesoba 8y ago
  Even if your EV is charged using a dirty power source, it’s still a net benefit to the environment. ICE vehicles are hideously inefficient compared to power plants, which have much better ratios of produced energy to consumed fuel. Those dirty power plants can also be replaced by clean power plants, instantly making all the EVs they’re charging dramatically cleaner. A dirty ICE vehicle is always going to be a dirty ICE vehicle, no matter what.
  - murukesh_s 8y ago
    Good points! >ICE vehicles are hideously inefficient compared to power plants. Any source for that? I was wondering about power transmission losses as well.

Pica_soO 8y ago

If you love your environment, you drive the oldest available running rust bucket. Manufacturing a car produces 50% of the emissions it has during its lifetime. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/green-living-blog/2010/sep/23/carbon-footprint-new-car https://www.theguardian.com/environment/green-living-blog/20...

AnthonyMouse 8y ago

> I think it's probably closer to 1 million barrels/day if you factor in all the emissions and pollutants associated with mining the nickel/lithium for the batteries. This is the same type of argument erroneously used against nuclear -- factoring in costs in one place but not the other. As though internal combustion engines, transmissions, radiators, exhaust systems with rare metal catalysts, etc. are not made of raw materials that have to be mined and processed. The curb weight of a Model 3 is on the same order as a Ford Taurus or BMW 3 series.

debt 8y ago
They to mine way more Earth for this rare Earth mineral batteries.
- AnthonyMouse 8y ago
  As opposed to, say, aluminum, which consumes so much electricity to produce that it amounts to ~3% of the world electrical generating capacity and producers have resorted to building their own power plants at the site of the smelting operation. There is also the question of how much longer lithium mining will have to continue at this pace, since in a few years there will obviously be a dense source of lithium for new batteries in the form of all the old batteries that can be recycled.

F_r_k 8y ago

I loved that you "think", but the reality is that you just don't know at all

dang 8y ago
Incivility like this and in your previous comment will get you banned on Hacker News. Please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and follow the rules when posting here.