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Calling the state of drones the "wild west" pretty much puts the conclusion at the start. How about, "Drone hobbyists angered at pointless laws that treat thei

Calling the state of drones the "wild west" pretty much puts the conclusion at the start. How about, "Drone hobbyists angered at pointless laws that treat their hobby like it's a problem"

MBCook 8y ago
What about the part of the article where the FCC gets 100 complaints a day, including from pilots seeing drones in dangerous areas?
- black6 8y ago
  Every large outdoor event I’ve been to recently has had at least one drone buzzing over the crowd at some point — and that’s been verboten from the start.
  - 24gttghh 8y ago
    Are you sure that's not the event flying/contracting out the drone work themselves?
- dsfyu404ed 8y ago
  100/day isn't that bad when you consider that there's >300 million people in the country and how much of a hair trigger some busybodies are on when it comes to reporting stuff to the government. 100/day is on the same order as the amount of "doing X while black" or "teenagers looking sketchy" complaints that get called in to local police departments across the country. You just don't hear about them because they're thinly distributed to local PD's across the country.. If only 100 people/day are complaining to the government about something then that something isn't a problem.
- tajobq 8y ago
  I think you mean the part that says 100 complaints per month. "Each month, the FAA receives more than 100 reports of drone sightings by pilots, citizens, and law enforcement"
  - dkresge 8y ago
    Note also it says “reports”, not complaints.
- gorkish 8y ago
  100 reports per month. The relatively small city I live in gets this many or more animal-at-large reports on a daily basis which likely constitute a larger public safety threat than people flying their quads around throughout the entire country. Where is the regulatory capture on leash laws?
  - poof131 8y ago
    Animal populations aren’t growing at exponential rates. The future scale of drones and autonomous airborne vehicles is going to be huge. The growing possibility of midairs with drones is more significant than bird strikes or deer on a runway. Hobbyist drone pilots are going to lose the safety battle. Just as you can’t drive however you want on public roads, class G airspace is going to resemble class A airspace. [1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airspace_class_(United_States) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airspace_class_(United_States)
    - DocTomoe 8y ago
      > Animal populations aren’t growing at exponential rates. Erm, yes, if you ignore outside factors, they do. In fact, population growth has been a poster child to explain what exponential growth means for a while...
    - cuboidGoat 8y ago
      >The growing possibility of midairs with drones is more significant than bird strikes That seems amazingly unlikely.
    - freeone3000 8y ago
      Really? There are more drones than birds?
      - CleaveIt2Beaver 8y ago
        More unaware drones/flying objects with greater mass than birds, maybe?
  - 8y ago
- KirinDave 8y ago
  100 reports a month, which if you think about the scale of the US is remarkably low.
- jzawodn 8y ago
  If the FCC gets that many, I wonder how many the FAA gets...
  - cuboidGoat 8y ago
    Hey, numbers and letters are hard. FCC, FAA, 100 reports per month, 100 complaints per day. Same thing, surely. Besides drones are bad, so exaggerating and misrepresenting is morally justified, as it will save the lives of billions that would otherwise have died from the flying evil.
- cuboidGoat 8y ago
  >“Each month, the FAA receives more than 100 reports of drone sightings by pilots, citizens, and law enforcement,” Drones interfering with manned aircraft or emergency services is already illegal. And these things are transmitting radio in both directions, putting money into tracking and prosecuting people interfering with flights is completely achievable, without any change in law. I suspect that this is more about protecting the interests of the commercial businesses by introducing licensing as a barrier to entry. >The bill is supported by the Commercial Drone Alliance, a Washington-based advocacy group representing Alphabet’s Wing as well as other drone businesses.
miranda_rights 8y ago
The hobby can be dangerous. Overall, it isn't problematic, but there are a few drone hobbyists that ruin it for the rest, frequently due to lack of training. There's the person who hit the Space Needle [0], the person who crashed their drone mid-day in SF after they lost connection with it and it almost hit people walking on the sidewalk [1]. The ease of buying one and being able to use it means it's possible to fly it without having any knowledge of all the ways it could go wrong. [0]: https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/crime/man-charged-with-piloting-drone-that-struck-space-needle-on-new-years-eve/ https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/crime/man-charged-... (Open in incognito if you run into the paywall) [1]: https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/drone-crashes-outside-millennium-tower-sinking-sf-13216498.php https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/drone-crashes-ou...
- rhinoceraptor 8y ago
  AFAICT the SF crash was done by a professional hired to inspect the crack, using a drone for business of any kind requires a part 107 certification.
- rrdharan 8y ago
  Don't forget the guy who crashed his drone in a Yellowstone geyser potentially causing irreparable environmental damage: https://www.idahostatejournal.com/members/a-crashed-drone-could-destroy-yellowstone-s-grand-prismatic-spring/article_009fb83c-20a0-11e5-9dcd-ffc330206e7a.amp.html https://www.idahostatejournal.com/members/a-crashed-drone-co... This one really pissed me off...
- tzs 8y ago
  Don't forget the idiots who fly drones at forest fires, which several times last year resulted in fire-fighting tanker planes being diverted away. I've heard people say that keeping the tankers away when a drone is in the same airspace is an overreaction, but those people are not thinking it through. There are several factors that make fire-fighting flights very difficult for the pilots. 1. They are flying very low. 2. The air over and around large fires is often very turbulent. 3. The plane is heavily loaded, making it less nimble than normal, and making maneuvers put much more stress on the plane than they would on a less loaded plane. The pilots are in a dangerous, stressful situation that requires their upmost concentration. Anything that distracts them is dangerous.
reaperducer 8y ago
How about, "Drone hobbyists angered at pointless laws that treat their hobby like it's a problem" I thought it was pointless, too, until I saw that video taken from a drone that hovered right above a passenger jet as it was landing at KLAS. (Sorry I can't search for the video at work — no YT allowed.)
- stickfigure 8y ago
  That isn't necessarily a justification. * Is that behavior already illegal under existing law? * Do these new laws meaningfully address that behavior?
  - Shivetya 8y ago
    you obviously haven't been keeping up with the current state of gun control legislation. governments are keen on making the illegal even more illegal as a means to look like they are doing something and to chip away at rights people are current exercising. drones will eventually become so heavily licensed than anything outside of law enforcement, large news organizations, and politicians, will be restricted to the point of needing specialized parks just to enjoy them. RC planes generally fall under 112-95 Section 336 which pretty much should work for drones
    - toss1 8y ago
      The problem is that RC planes almost universally require a much higher investment in skill-building to become competent enough to even fly, let alone fly well. There is also a large community of builders and flyers [1], a network of clubs with actual airfields for the purpose, and a multi-million dollar insurance policy with membership. Both the difficulty, the investment, and the training and peer pressure drastically reduces the number of participants who behave like asshats with their aircraft - to essentially zero. With hobby drones, it is exactly the opposite -- just go buy some overgrown toy, and you can now put up in the air a device that with any of hundreds of failures of the device or pilot, can become a lethal projectile falling from the sky. So, yes, serious requirements for anything over a few hundred grams is very reasonable[2]. [1] Academy of Model Aeronautics -- www.modelaircraft.org [2](no, I'm not implying that the Govt automatically implements every reg in a reasonable & effective way, that could still end badly.) [Edit: footnotes]
bsder 8y ago
When California has to ground fire control aircraft because idiots are too stupid to realize that flying drones near them is a bad idea, yeah, the hobby is a problem. The good drone operators didn't get control over the bad ones, so here we are.
- pythonaut_16 8y ago
  > The good drone operators didn't get control over the bad ones What does this even mean? I buy a drone and now I'm responsible to go hunt down every idiot with a drone and tell him to knock it off? I'm sure that would be very effective. Definitely much more effective than the FAA regulations already in place that these people choose to ignore.
  - bsder 8y ago
    The early drone operators and builders had the opportunity to propose and install mechanisms to manage drones properly. Instead, they spent their political capital fighting regulations instead of making good ones that the FAA could simply adopt wholesale. Because of that, the FAA stepped in and now everybody gets to deal with the fallout.
xg15 8y ago
Well, that puts the opposite conclusion at the start.
scandox 8y ago
I want these things as highly regulated as possible. I found it extremely uncomfortable to have drones flying about over my kids head in the park. What do I know about the competence of the pilots? Or the onboard AI? Nothing. They're basically high speed aerial blades from my POV.
- Balero 8y ago
  I don't like drones flying over public places from a privacy perspective. I've been hit by an admittedly, fairly small drone. I't didn't hurt much at all, and the rotors didn't break the skin. I don't think they're like aerial blades, unless someone attaches some to one.
  - scandox 8y ago
    Good to know.
  - alistairSH 8y ago
    It really depends on the drone. Those small toy drones? Yeah, might cut you a bit if the rotor cages aren't installed. Something heavier like a DJI Phantom? Even if the blades don't cut you, those carry enough mass/speed to seriously injure.
    - Balero 8y ago
      I mean yeah of course. I was talking about small hobby drones. Taking it to the absurd, if you get hit by one of those Reapers[0] you might get really seriously injured! [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Atomics_MQ-9_Reaper https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Atomics_MQ-9_Reaper
craftyguy 8y ago
It is a problem.
pc86 8y ago
How about, "Some drone hobbyists angered they can't keep flying their drones at landing aircraft like assholes?" All the uncontrolled airports near me have to have drone advisories because nobody respects the 400' or line of sight regulations. I was landing on 35 at KTHV last year and nearly hit a drone at almost 900' turning to downwind to base. There needs to be registration and regulation so that when you as a drone operator violate airspace regulations you can be punished.

Calling the state of drones the "wild west" pretty much puts the conclusion at the start. How about, "Drone hobbyists angered at pointless laws that treat their hobby like it's a problem"

MBCook 8y ago

What about the part of the article where the FCC gets 100 complaints a day, including from pilots seeing drones in dangerous areas?

black6 8y ago
Every large outdoor event I’ve been to recently has had at least one drone buzzing over the crowd at some point — and that’s been verboten from the start.
- 24gttghh 8y ago
  Are you sure that's not the event flying/contracting out the drone work themselves?
dsfyu404ed 8y ago
100/day isn't that bad when you consider that there's >300 million people in the country and how much of a hair trigger some busybodies are on when it comes to reporting stuff to the government. 100/day is on the same order as the amount of "doing X while black" or "teenagers looking sketchy" complaints that get called in to local police departments across the country. You just don't hear about them because they're thinly distributed to local PD's across the country.. If only 100 people/day are complaining to the government about something then that something isn't a problem.
tajobq 8y ago
I think you mean the part that says 100 complaints per month. "Each month, the FAA receives more than 100 reports of drone sightings by pilots, citizens, and law enforcement"
- dkresge 8y ago
  Note also it says “reports”, not complaints.
gorkish 8y ago
100 reports per month. The relatively small city I live in gets this many or more animal-at-large reports on a daily basis which likely constitute a larger public safety threat than people flying their quads around throughout the entire country. Where is the regulatory capture on leash laws?
- poof131 8y ago
  Animal populations aren’t growing at exponential rates. The future scale of drones and autonomous airborne vehicles is going to be huge. The growing possibility of midairs with drones is more significant than bird strikes or deer on a runway. Hobbyist drone pilots are going to lose the safety battle. Just as you can’t drive however you want on public roads, class G airspace is going to resemble class A airspace. [1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airspace_class_(United_States) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airspace_class_(United_States)
  - DocTomoe 8y ago
    > Animal populations aren’t growing at exponential rates. Erm, yes, if you ignore outside factors, they do. In fact, population growth has been a poster child to explain what exponential growth means for a while...
  - cuboidGoat 8y ago
    >The growing possibility of midairs with drones is more significant than bird strikes That seems amazingly unlikely.
  - freeone3000 8y ago
    Really? There are more drones than birds?
    - CleaveIt2Beaver 8y ago
      More unaware drones/flying objects with greater mass than birds, maybe?
- 8y ago
KirinDave 8y ago
100 reports a month, which if you think about the scale of the US is remarkably low.
jzawodn 8y ago
If the FCC gets that many, I wonder how many the FAA gets...
- cuboidGoat 8y ago
  Hey, numbers and letters are hard. FCC, FAA, 100 reports per month, 100 complaints per day. Same thing, surely. Besides drones are bad, so exaggerating and misrepresenting is morally justified, as it will save the lives of billions that would otherwise have died from the flying evil.
cuboidGoat 8y ago
>“Each month, the FAA receives more than 100 reports of drone sightings by pilots, citizens, and law enforcement,” Drones interfering with manned aircraft or emergency services is already illegal. And these things are transmitting radio in both directions, putting money into tracking and prosecuting people interfering with flights is completely achievable, without any change in law. I suspect that this is more about protecting the interests of the commercial businesses by introducing licensing as a barrier to entry. >The bill is supported by the Commercial Drone Alliance, a Washington-based advocacy group representing Alphabet’s Wing as well as other drone businesses.

miranda_rights 8y ago

The hobby can be dangerous. Overall, it isn't problematic, but there are a few drone hobbyists that ruin it for the rest, frequently due to lack of training. There's the person who hit the Space Needle [0], the person who crashed their drone mid-day in SF after they lost connection with it and it almost hit people walking on the sidewalk [1]. The ease of buying one and being able to use it means it's possible to fly it without having any knowledge of all the ways it could go wrong. [0]: https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/crime/man-charged-with-piloting-drone-that-struck-space-needle-on-new-years-eve/ https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/crime/man-charged-... (Open in incognito if you run into the paywall) [1]: https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/drone-crashes-outside-millennium-tower-sinking-sf-13216498.php https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/drone-crashes-ou...

rhinoceraptor 8y ago
AFAICT the SF crash was done by a professional hired to inspect the crack, using a drone for business of any kind requires a part 107 certification.
rrdharan 8y ago
Don't forget the guy who crashed his drone in a Yellowstone geyser potentially causing irreparable environmental damage: https://www.idahostatejournal.com/members/a-crashed-drone-could-destroy-yellowstone-s-grand-prismatic-spring/article_009fb83c-20a0-11e5-9dcd-ffc330206e7a.amp.html https://www.idahostatejournal.com/members/a-crashed-drone-co... This one really pissed me off...
tzs 8y ago
Don't forget the idiots who fly drones at forest fires, which several times last year resulted in fire-fighting tanker planes being diverted away. I've heard people say that keeping the tankers away when a drone is in the same airspace is an overreaction, but those people are not thinking it through. There are several factors that make fire-fighting flights very difficult for the pilots. 1. They are flying very low. 2. The air over and around large fires is often very turbulent. 3. The plane is heavily loaded, making it less nimble than normal, and making maneuvers put much more stress on the plane than they would on a less loaded plane. The pilots are in a dangerous, stressful situation that requires their upmost concentration. Anything that distracts them is dangerous.

reaperducer 8y ago

How about, "Drone hobbyists angered at pointless laws that treat their hobby like it's a problem" I thought it was pointless, too, until I saw that video taken from a drone that hovered right above a passenger jet as it was landing at KLAS. (Sorry I can't search for the video at work — no YT allowed.)

stickfigure 8y ago
That isn't necessarily a justification. * Is that behavior already illegal under existing law? * Do these new laws meaningfully address that behavior?
- Shivetya 8y ago
  you obviously haven't been keeping up with the current state of gun control legislation. governments are keen on making the illegal even more illegal as a means to look like they are doing something and to chip away at rights people are current exercising. drones will eventually become so heavily licensed than anything outside of law enforcement, large news organizations, and politicians, will be restricted to the point of needing specialized parks just to enjoy them. RC planes generally fall under 112-95 Section 336 which pretty much should work for drones
  - toss1 8y ago
    The problem is that RC planes almost universally require a much higher investment in skill-building to become competent enough to even fly, let alone fly well. There is also a large community of builders and flyers [1], a network of clubs with actual airfields for the purpose, and a multi-million dollar insurance policy with membership. Both the difficulty, the investment, and the training and peer pressure drastically reduces the number of participants who behave like asshats with their aircraft - to essentially zero. With hobby drones, it is exactly the opposite -- just go buy some overgrown toy, and you can now put up in the air a device that with any of hundreds of failures of the device or pilot, can become a lethal projectile falling from the sky. So, yes, serious requirements for anything over a few hundred grams is very reasonable[2]. [1] Academy of Model Aeronautics -- www.modelaircraft.org [2](no, I'm not implying that the Govt automatically implements every reg in a reasonable & effective way, that could still end badly.) [Edit: footnotes]

bsder 8y ago

When California has to ground fire control aircraft because idiots are too stupid to realize that flying drones near them is a bad idea, yeah, the hobby is a problem. The good drone operators didn't get control over the bad ones, so here we are.

pythonaut_16 8y ago
> The good drone operators didn't get control over the bad ones What does this even mean? I buy a drone and now I'm responsible to go hunt down every idiot with a drone and tell him to knock it off? I'm sure that would be very effective. Definitely much more effective than the FAA regulations already in place that these people choose to ignore.
- bsder 8y ago
  The early drone operators and builders had the opportunity to propose and install mechanisms to manage drones properly. Instead, they spent their political capital fighting regulations instead of making good ones that the FAA could simply adopt wholesale. Because of that, the FAA stepped in and now everybody gets to deal with the fallout.

xg15 8y ago

Well, that puts the opposite conclusion at the start.

scandox 8y ago

I want these things as highly regulated as possible. I found it extremely uncomfortable to have drones flying about over my kids head in the park. What do I know about the competence of the pilots? Or the onboard AI? Nothing. They're basically high speed aerial blades from my POV.

Balero 8y ago
I don't like drones flying over public places from a privacy perspective. I've been hit by an admittedly, fairly small drone. I't didn't hurt much at all, and the rotors didn't break the skin. I don't think they're like aerial blades, unless someone attaches some to one.
- scandox 8y ago
  Good to know.
- alistairSH 8y ago
  It really depends on the drone. Those small toy drones? Yeah, might cut you a bit if the rotor cages aren't installed. Something heavier like a DJI Phantom? Even if the blades don't cut you, those carry enough mass/speed to seriously injure.
  - Balero 8y ago
    I mean yeah of course. I was talking about small hobby drones. Taking it to the absurd, if you get hit by one of those Reapers[0] you might get really seriously injured! [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Atomics_MQ-9_Reaper https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Atomics_MQ-9_Reaper

craftyguy 8y ago

It is a problem.

pc86 8y ago

How about, "Some drone hobbyists angered they can't keep flying their drones at landing aircraft like assholes?" All the uncontrolled airports near me have to have drone advisories because nobody respects the 400' or line of sight regulations. I was landing on 35 at KTHV last year and nearly hit a drone at almost 900' turning to downwind to base. There needs to be registration and regulation so that when you as a drone operator violate airspace regulations you can be punished.