4 ms·

« pushing closer to the ennemi », yet i don’t think any european citizen will understand why we prefer to start a judiciary war against the US just so that we c

by bsaul 8y ago

« pushing closer to the ennemi », yet i don’t think any european citizen will understand why we prefer to start a judiciary war against the US just so that we can help a muslim theocracy broaden its influence in the middle east. It doesn’t serm to me that the public opinion in europe is really heading toward that kind of opinion.

close04 8y ago
I mean closer economically. It would strengthen economic ties between EU and China or Russia.
saiya-jin 8y ago
Public opinion in Europe ain't very positive about Trump either, every other day its another eye roll because of what that ego maniac did/said/didn't, how rude and unfair he is. This is what people see. On the other side, what specifically Iran did do to deserve this? Yes they meddle around their neighbors, just like every other country. US is the last who should be blaming others for this, Iran is at least home and not inciting civil wars in Mexico or Cuba. In the same time Saudi Arabia doing some small-scale genocide in Yemen, bombing civilians left and right gets a free pass and very friendly attitude, yet they are the one of the biggest exporters of terrorism and country is as far from freedom and equality as one can be in 21st century.
- plopilop 8y ago
  I'll add that sanctions were imposed because Iran was getting greedy with nuclear power. Now that Iran backed off, there is no reason to continue these sanctions. Moreover everyone voted to lift said sanctions in 2015, and now some orange dude said 'no fuck u' despite his country having signed the arrangement and wants to force everyone else to unilaterally accept his own conditions. It's good to see that Europe finally grew a spine.
- bsaul 8y ago
  you do realize iran is trying to get the maximum influence by destabilizing its neighbours ( such a lebanon and yemen), in a region crippled by war for centuries, while at the same time oppressing its own people (and women in particular) ? i really don’t think europe should go to economical war against the US to save this regime’s *ss and sell them a few cars. Note that my reasoning would be absolutely identical if US decided to do the same with saudi arabia...
  - tveita 8y ago
    > while at the same time oppressing its own people That's the thing, though. Iran clearly isn't some redeemable den of evil, the populace used to be both well-educated and friendly towards the west. It might take a (democratic) regime change to restore relations to anywhere near "good", but at this rate you could say the same about the US.
PunchTornado 8y ago
as a European, I don't feel close to US at all at the moment.
- snaky 8y ago
  Do you feel yourself being close to China?
  - bodas 8y ago
    As far as I can see, the EU has a neutral relationship with China but a hostile relationship with the US.
    - snaky 8y ago
      That's not quite neutral > BERLIN (Reuters) - The German government is taking steps to counter a surge in Chinese bids for stakes in German technology companies, including the creation of a billion-euro fund that could rescue such firms in financial trouble, a government source told Reuters.
    - dagw 8y ago
      I don't think this a true at all. The EU, certainly as an institution, has still has a very strong, open and positive relationship with the US. Sure Trump is adding a lot of uncertainty and putting a strain on that, but most people a) interact with more stable parts of the government bureaucracy rather than directly with the White House and b) consider Trump an anomalous outlier and within 5-10 years we'll be back to business as usual.
      - bodas 8y ago
        The EU can only work with what it is given, Trump plainly hates the EU, you can't have an open and positive relationship with someone who hates you. Regardless of what anyone else in America thinks, Trump as President has the power to unilaterally sour the EU/US relationship and he is doing that quite effectively with his policies. Yes if America elects someone who is not openly hostile towards the EU then the relationship will recover but a lot of trust has been lost.
decentralised 8y ago
It's not about the type of government in Iran, it's about being sovereign in our own affairs.
- true_religion 8y ago
  Well you are soverign, and thus free to trade with Iran over the USA. It is really up to Europeans to decide if leaving their closest historical ally and trading partner is a good thing, just ao they can grow closer to Iran. I would be really disappointed if it goes that way though.
  - close04 8y ago
    It would appear that one man was allowed to turn an alliance into a hostage situation. So I guess all bets are off. And again, this is not about getting close to Iran. It's about not having your "ally" try to dictate all critical aspects of your existence. You wouldn't want your friends overriding you on what to eat, what you drink, where you sleep, and who you talk to, would you? You'd question the nature and value of that friendship.
  - decentralised 8y ago
    I wouldn't think that is a likely possibility given the impact tariffs would bring to all of us. What is more likely (and lets keep in mind we are discussing public policy of economical super powers) is that we would reach an agreement that the unilateral blockades and sanctions are really unilateral.
- scotty79 8y ago
  Also about USA living at the expense of the rest of the world, printing their currency willy-nilly without the risk of devaluing it because all the main goods are priced in usd. See how dollar plunges and US deficit becomes painful when usd is detangled from oil. Then we will finally know if one can eat aircraft carriers and holywood movies.
krageon 8y ago
Very few people love the US' meddling in politics. If we have good trade deals, presumably those were made by our politicians deciding they are alright. We can have opinions about that, but they are separate from this issue. This is the US trying to bully the EU into doing what they want, which is something that should be opposed.
axtn 8y ago
> i don’t think any european citizen will understand why we prefer to start a judiciary war against the US just so that we can help a muslim theocracy broaden its influence in the middle east. European citizens don’t seem to care that much about the EU’s tight relationship with Saudi Arabia... Why should they feel differently about Iran?

by bsaul 8y ago

close04 8y ago

I mean closer economically. It would strengthen economic ties between EU and China or Russia.

saiya-jin 8y ago

Public opinion in Europe ain't very positive about Trump either, every other day its another eye roll because of what that ego maniac did/said/didn't, how rude and unfair he is. This is what people see. On the other side, what specifically Iran did do to deserve this? Yes they meddle around their neighbors, just like every other country. US is the last who should be blaming others for this, Iran is at least home and not inciting civil wars in Mexico or Cuba. In the same time Saudi Arabia doing some small-scale genocide in Yemen, bombing civilians left and right gets a free pass and very friendly attitude, yet they are the one of the biggest exporters of terrorism and country is as far from freedom and equality as one can be in 21st century.

plopilop 8y ago
I'll add that sanctions were imposed because Iran was getting greedy with nuclear power. Now that Iran backed off, there is no reason to continue these sanctions. Moreover everyone voted to lift said sanctions in 2015, and now some orange dude said 'no fuck u' despite his country having signed the arrangement and wants to force everyone else to unilaterally accept his own conditions. It's good to see that Europe finally grew a spine.
bsaul 8y ago
you do realize iran is trying to get the maximum influence by destabilizing its neighbours ( such a lebanon and yemen), in a region crippled by war for centuries, while at the same time oppressing its own people (and women in particular) ? i really don’t think europe should go to economical war against the US to save this regime’s *ss and sell them a few cars. Note that my reasoning would be absolutely identical if US decided to do the same with saudi arabia...
- tveita 8y ago
  > while at the same time oppressing its own people That's the thing, though. Iran clearly isn't some redeemable den of evil, the populace used to be both well-educated and friendly towards the west. It might take a (democratic) regime change to restore relations to anywhere near "good", but at this rate you could say the same about the US.

PunchTornado 8y ago

as a European, I don't feel close to US at all at the moment.

snaky 8y ago
Do you feel yourself being close to China?
- bodas 8y ago
  As far as I can see, the EU has a neutral relationship with China but a hostile relationship with the US.
  - snaky 8y ago
    That's not quite neutral > BERLIN (Reuters) - The German government is taking steps to counter a surge in Chinese bids for stakes in German technology companies, including the creation of a billion-euro fund that could rescue such firms in financial trouble, a government source told Reuters.
  - dagw 8y ago
    I don't think this a true at all. The EU, certainly as an institution, has still has a very strong, open and positive relationship with the US. Sure Trump is adding a lot of uncertainty and putting a strain on that, but most people a) interact with more stable parts of the government bureaucracy rather than directly with the White House and b) consider Trump an anomalous outlier and within 5-10 years we'll be back to business as usual.
    - bodas 8y ago
      The EU can only work with what it is given, Trump plainly hates the EU, you can't have an open and positive relationship with someone who hates you. Regardless of what anyone else in America thinks, Trump as President has the power to unilaterally sour the EU/US relationship and he is doing that quite effectively with his policies. Yes if America elects someone who is not openly hostile towards the EU then the relationship will recover but a lot of trust has been lost.

decentralised 8y ago

It's not about the type of government in Iran, it's about being sovereign in our own affairs.

true_religion 8y ago
Well you are soverign, and thus free to trade with Iran over the USA. It is really up to Europeans to decide if leaving their closest historical ally and trading partner is a good thing, just ao they can grow closer to Iran. I would be really disappointed if it goes that way though.
- close04 8y ago
  It would appear that one man was allowed to turn an alliance into a hostage situation. So I guess all bets are off. And again, this is not about getting close to Iran. It's about not having your "ally" try to dictate all critical aspects of your existence. You wouldn't want your friends overriding you on what to eat, what you drink, where you sleep, and who you talk to, would you? You'd question the nature and value of that friendship.
- decentralised 8y ago
  I wouldn't think that is a likely possibility given the impact tariffs would bring to all of us. What is more likely (and lets keep in mind we are discussing public policy of economical super powers) is that we would reach an agreement that the unilateral blockades and sanctions are really unilateral.
scotty79 8y ago
Also about USA living at the expense of the rest of the world, printing their currency willy-nilly without the risk of devaluing it because all the main goods are priced in usd. See how dollar plunges and US deficit becomes painful when usd is detangled from oil. Then we will finally know if one can eat aircraft carriers and holywood movies.

krageon 8y ago

Very few people love the US' meddling in politics. If we have good trade deals, presumably those were made by our politicians deciding they are alright. We can have opinions about that, but they are separate from this issue. This is the US trying to bully the EU into doing what they want, which is something that should be opposed.

axtn 8y ago

> i don’t think any european citizen will understand why we prefer to start a judiciary war against the US just so that we can help a muslim theocracy broaden its influence in the middle east. European citizens don’t seem to care that much about the EU’s tight relationship with Saudi Arabia... Why should they feel differently about Iran?