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> We’re also going to change the way we handle the clearing of auth cookies. In the current version of Chrome, we keep the Google auth cookies to allow you to s

by koolba 8y ago

> We’re also going to change the way we handle the clearing of auth cookies. In the current version of Chrome, we keep the Google auth cookies to allow you to stay signed in after cookies are cleared. We will change this behavior that so all cookies are deleted and you will be signed out. I really want to know who the internal champion was for getting the cookies to be perma-stored in the first place. It has to be someone relatively high up and I’m genuinely curious how high it goes.

nhf 8y ago
Based on what I know of the Chrome team, it was probably the conclusion of some UX manager or the result of a user study they did around Google authentication. If I had to guess: their end goal is not explicitly to collect more advertising data for Google, but it's to minimize friction around the use of Google services. This leads to decisions like the cookie one.
- fermienrico 8y ago
  I don’t know why but I get an intense feeling of disgust at “people at higher position” making stupid decisions like this one. My cynicism kicks in and I feel like they know exactly what they’re doing, but the bottom line is more important than anything including causing a PR storm on HN and tech blogs. Strip down emperor’s clothes and truly reveal the nature of big corporations and their greed to ruin everything for the benefit of the shareholders and their bonus targets - ethics, privacy and environment. Perhaps I have a problem with extreme levels of cynicism.
  - romed 8y ago
    In my experience at Google, "people at higher positions" do not really make these kinds of decisions. Someone at the leafmost position in the organization comes up with some research and recommendations and if nobody stops them, they go ahead and do it. It's actually really disorganized.
    - fermienrico 8y ago
      I feel like integrating auto sign in, tracking and Google cookies is less of a disorganized decision and more of a premeditated, carefully snuck in effort for their ads business. All the stars align for the bottom line. Just look at the state of Android. Try being a cell phone OEM who wants to use Android but without Google integration. Impossible.
      - lern_too_spel 8y ago
        > Try being a cell phone OEM who wants to use Android but without Google integration. Impossible. Tell that to Vivo, Oppo, Honor, Huawei, Xiaomi, Meizu, OnePlus, Lenovo, Qiku, Smartisan, Amazon, etc.
        fermienrico 8y ago
        Yet most of them have to install play store. There is no going away from Google completely unless you're Amazon on large budget and you make a big branch off Android source.
        computerfriend 8y ago
        Not in China.
        snaky 8y ago
        > most of them have to install play store Not in China. Some of them have an "International ROM" with play store, but not because they have to, just for non-Chinese users convenience.
        ascorbic 8y ago
        OK, try being and OEM who wants to use Android but without Google integration in a country where Google is legal. I think Amazon backs up that point, not yours.
        8y ago
- onion2k 8y ago
  If I had to guess: their end goal is not explicitly to collect more advertising data for Google, but it's to minimize friction around the use of Google services. How can you have one without the other? Google services exist to drive advertising. Anything to make a Google service better for the user has a corresponding impact on Google's ad business.
- notyourday 8y ago
  And no one from the engineering of the chrome team had balls to tell the manager "No, not doing it. It is wrong".
baxtr 8y ago
I find it interesting that you use the word “champion”. I had a discussion the other day with a well experienced consulting colleague of mine. His view was that every company has Champions which in turn reflect the company culture and values. For consulting companies these are partners. For google it used to be the CS PhDs (my guess). Maybe, this is changing at google right now and other people are becoming the “champions”, which might explain the underlying reasons this happened in the first place
brlewis 8y ago
I don't think it was an isolated person. The tone of the blog post is that we're surprisingly passionate to want clearing cookies to actually clear cookies. Am I the only one who detects a condescending tone here? We deeply appreciate all of the passionate users who have engaged with us on this. Chrome is a diverse, worldwide community, and we’re lucky to have users who care as much as you do. Keep the feedback coming.
daveFNbuck 8y ago
If they hadn't perma-stored the cookies, we'd all be pointing out how stupid it is that clearing your cookies logs you out of the browser. This would be clear evidence of what a stupid idea it is to match browser sign-in state to your cookies. There'd probably be a blog post about how Chrome 70 will automatically create fresh Google cookies to keep you logged in to the browser after you delete them.
- reificator 8y ago
  > There'd probably be a blog post about how Chrome 70 will automatically create fresh Google cookies to keep you logged in to the browser after you delete them. Maybe I'm just being pedantic and there's no real-world difference, but I'm a little more okay with the browser creating new cookies whenever they're cleared vs not clearing cookies when asked. Not entirely okay with it, mind you. Especially since browser logins are now two-way.
  - daveFNbuck 8y ago
    I thought that's what was happening. Maybe that was just when you delete individual Google cookies.
    - reificator 8y ago
      Could be. Like I said there's not much functional difference, but one is more palatable somehow. IMO.
- feanaro 8y ago
  > This would be clear evidence of what a stupid idea it is to match browser sign-in state to your cookies. It must certainly is a stupid idea.
  - daveFNbuck 8y ago
    Agreed. My point is that there's no good cookie retention policy under this design.

by koolba 8y ago

nhf 8y ago

Based on what I know of the Chrome team, it was probably the conclusion of some UX manager or the result of a user study they did around Google authentication. If I had to guess: their end goal is not explicitly to collect more advertising data for Google, but it's to minimize friction around the use of Google services. This leads to decisions like the cookie one.

fermienrico 8y ago
I don’t know why but I get an intense feeling of disgust at “people at higher position” making stupid decisions like this one. My cynicism kicks in and I feel like they know exactly what they’re doing, but the bottom line is more important than anything including causing a PR storm on HN and tech blogs. Strip down emperor’s clothes and truly reveal the nature of big corporations and their greed to ruin everything for the benefit of the shareholders and their bonus targets - ethics, privacy and environment. Perhaps I have a problem with extreme levels of cynicism.
- romed 8y ago
  In my experience at Google, "people at higher positions" do not really make these kinds of decisions. Someone at the leafmost position in the organization comes up with some research and recommendations and if nobody stops them, they go ahead and do it. It's actually really disorganized.
  - fermienrico 8y ago
    I feel like integrating auto sign in, tracking and Google cookies is less of a disorganized decision and more of a premeditated, carefully snuck in effort for their ads business. All the stars align for the bottom line. Just look at the state of Android. Try being a cell phone OEM who wants to use Android but without Google integration. Impossible.
    - lern_too_spel 8y ago
      > Try being a cell phone OEM who wants to use Android but without Google integration. Impossible. Tell that to Vivo, Oppo, Honor, Huawei, Xiaomi, Meizu, OnePlus, Lenovo, Qiku, Smartisan, Amazon, etc.
      - fermienrico 8y ago
        Yet most of them have to install play store. There is no going away from Google completely unless you're Amazon on large budget and you make a big branch off Android source.
        computerfriend 8y ago
        Not in China.
        snaky 8y ago
        > most of them have to install play store Not in China. Some of them have an "International ROM" with play store, but not because they have to, just for non-Chinese users convenience.
      - ascorbic 8y ago
        OK, try being and OEM who wants to use Android but without Google integration in a country where Google is legal. I think Amazon backs up that point, not yours.
        8y ago
onion2k 8y ago
If I had to guess: their end goal is not explicitly to collect more advertising data for Google, but it's to minimize friction around the use of Google services. How can you have one without the other? Google services exist to drive advertising. Anything to make a Google service better for the user has a corresponding impact on Google's ad business.
notyourday 8y ago
And no one from the engineering of the chrome team had balls to tell the manager "No, not doing it. It is wrong".

baxtr 8y ago

I find it interesting that you use the word “champion”. I had a discussion the other day with a well experienced consulting colleague of mine. His view was that every company has Champions which in turn reflect the company culture and values. For consulting companies these are partners. For google it used to be the CS PhDs (my guess). Maybe, this is changing at google right now and other people are becoming the “champions”, which might explain the underlying reasons this happened in the first place

brlewis 8y ago

I don't think it was an isolated person. The tone of the blog post is that we're surprisingly passionate to want clearing cookies to actually clear cookies. Am I the only one who detects a condescending tone here? We deeply appreciate all of the passionate users who have engaged with us on this. Chrome is a diverse, worldwide community, and we’re lucky to have users who care as much as you do. Keep the feedback coming.

daveFNbuck 8y ago

If they hadn't perma-stored the cookies, we'd all be pointing out how stupid it is that clearing your cookies logs you out of the browser. This would be clear evidence of what a stupid idea it is to match browser sign-in state to your cookies. There'd probably be a blog post about how Chrome 70 will automatically create fresh Google cookies to keep you logged in to the browser after you delete them.

reificator 8y ago
> There'd probably be a blog post about how Chrome 70 will automatically create fresh Google cookies to keep you logged in to the browser after you delete them. Maybe I'm just being pedantic and there's no real-world difference, but I'm a little more okay with the browser creating new cookies whenever they're cleared vs not clearing cookies when asked. Not entirely okay with it, mind you. Especially since browser logins are now two-way.
- daveFNbuck 8y ago
  I thought that's what was happening. Maybe that was just when you delete individual Google cookies.
  - reificator 8y ago
    Could be. Like I said there's not much functional difference, but one is more palatable somehow. IMO.
feanaro 8y ago
> This would be clear evidence of what a stupid idea it is to match browser sign-in state to your cookies. It must certainly is a stupid idea.
- daveFNbuck 8y ago
  Agreed. My point is that there's no good cookie retention policy under this design.