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I recently switched to using a mac after a long time of pc+linux, the most jarring part of the change was dealing with the community. Every time I asked a ques

I recently switched to using a mac after a long time of pc+linux, the most jarring part of the change was dealing with the community. Every time I asked a question I could split the difference of replies fairly easily, one group would almost be offended that I asked the question, told me "I just learn how its done the mac way", and offer me their sub standard solution, these were often fairly rude. The others were would point me towards an app here or an app there, I got help writing my first objc and SIMBL plugin, even the authors of a lot of cool applications, witch / sizeup / alfred etc were easily contactable for questions about their apps or just in general. While intellectual snobbery has always been somewhat of a problem in computing, I think the class snobbery I have seen in a small set of mac users is a particularly bad trend.

prawn 16y ago
Whenever I need Mac-related advice, I always email two friends with both email addresses in the To field (where they can both see them). Both are normally slack to reply to emails but when it's time to demonstrate the wonders of Mac, they fall over themselves trying to be the first (and most comprehensive) to respond to my problem. Useful and amusing!
- daleharvey 16y ago
  lol, very similar to the old "it sucks that linux cant ....." reverse psychology
stcredzero 16y ago
be offended that I asked the question, told me "I just learn how its done the mac way" This is just a distorted echo of rude responses from the Linux community. (Not really an echo. One is not the cause of the other. Rather, they both have the same cause in the psychological roots of the "smug [X] weenie" phenomenon.)
- jeebusroxors 16y ago
  I may be a bit biased but aren't most rude linux comments rooted in "RTFM" or documented processes (eg "Don't top post!, "Use the search feature"), and not "This is the linux way"?
  - stcredzero 16y ago
    "RTFM" = "the linux way" (of old) The ideologies of smug [X] weenies differ, just as the dogma of religions differ. The underlying psychologies are still similar, however.
  - halostatue 16y ago
    I don't see a meaningful difference between someone who says "RTFM" or "UTSL" and "just get used to the <x> way." Asinine responses are asinine responses, regardless of who does them or why.
matwood 16y ago
Every time I asked a question I could split the difference of replies fairly easily, one group would almost be offended that I asked the question, told me "I just learn how its done the mac way", and offer me their sub standard solution, these were often fairly rude. RTFM! Now do you feel that your back in the linux community? :p
- stakent 16y ago
  Or RTFArchive on many forums, on Usenet etc.
loewenskind 16y ago
I have a friend who got into mac shortly after I did. While I was happy about how much more low maintenance this platform was, he saw nothing but problems. I asked him what he was seeing and I was pretty shocked. "Why do you want to replace your keyboard driver?", etc. What I've found is that in Mac it really does help if you try to find the mac way and use it. This didn't work on Windows because windows has too many problems (so many wrong defaults, system breaking on its own under relatively normal usage, etc.). It doesn't work with Linux either because the only "Linux way" I can see is to have your own way (i.e. infinite customization potential). With Mac the system is very stable (it does have issues, especially around multiple users logged in at the same time, but overall it's very good) and most of the defaults are quite sensible once you get used to them. If you refuse to "go mac" then you're setting yourself up for a continuous upstream battle of never ending customization. And if you're going to spend so much time administrating your machine instead of using it you may as well use Windows or Linux.
berntb 16y ago
>>I recently switched to using a mac after a long time of pc+linux, the most jarring part of the change was dealing with the community. I'm jaded from reading too many language war trolls... :-) What gets my goat are the higher prices for everything -- today there is a repair bill for my Mac portable which would pay for an ok Linux laptop... :-( (Apple sell some guarantee extension, but I thought naively that I didn't move the portable around enough for it to break. :-( But maybe it is me; my work Lenovo T60 isn't that steady, either...) I'll buy the argument that Apple do design (GUI, hardware and O/S integration) better, but I really don't see that much of a win compared to Linux for using a browser, bash and Emacs.
bradleyland 16y ago
In defense of... Long time Apple users frequently encounter questions like: "How do I make the close button appear on the right?" "How do I make the application close when I close the window?" "How do I make the window fill the screen when I click the plus." These questions are like buckshot on Mac forums. They're posted every day, despite the fact that there are readily available (by searching) answers, or good philosophical reasons why "it doesn't work that way" on a Mac. I'm not saying that you asked one of those questions, but there are many similar, but more complex, questions that evoke the same reaction. Many Mac users like they way OS X works, and wouldn't want it to work more like Windows/GNOME/KDE/etc. This results in a hostile reaction when users come along suggesting the like. This doesn't justify a hostile attitude, but it does explain where it comes from.

prawn 16y ago

Whenever I need Mac-related advice, I always email two friends with both email addresses in the To field (where they can both see them). Both are normally slack to reply to emails but when it's time to demonstrate the wonders of Mac, they fall over themselves trying to be the first (and most comprehensive) to respond to my problem. Useful and amusing!

daleharvey 16y ago
lol, very similar to the old "it sucks that linux cant ....." reverse psychology

stcredzero 16y ago

be offended that I asked the question, told me "I just learn how its done the mac way" This is just a distorted echo of rude responses from the Linux community. (Not really an echo. One is not the cause of the other. Rather, they both have the same cause in the psychological roots of the "smug [X] weenie" phenomenon.)

jeebusroxors 16y ago
I may be a bit biased but aren't most rude linux comments rooted in "RTFM" or documented processes (eg "Don't top post!, "Use the search feature"), and not "This is the linux way"?
- stcredzero 16y ago
  "RTFM" = "the linux way" (of old) The ideologies of smug [X] weenies differ, just as the dogma of religions differ. The underlying psychologies are still similar, however.
- halostatue 16y ago
  I don't see a meaningful difference between someone who says "RTFM" or "UTSL" and "just get used to the <x> way." Asinine responses are asinine responses, regardless of who does them or why.

matwood 16y ago

Every time I asked a question I could split the difference of replies fairly easily, one group would almost be offended that I asked the question, told me "I just learn how its done the mac way", and offer me their sub standard solution, these were often fairly rude. RTFM! Now do you feel that your back in the linux community? :p

stakent 16y ago
Or RTFArchive on many forums, on Usenet etc.

loewenskind 16y ago

I have a friend who got into mac shortly after I did. While I was happy about how much more low maintenance this platform was, he saw nothing but problems. I asked him what he was seeing and I was pretty shocked. "Why do you want to replace your keyboard driver?", etc. What I've found is that in Mac it really does help if you try to find the mac way and use it. This didn't work on Windows because windows has too many problems (so many wrong defaults, system breaking on its own under relatively normal usage, etc.). It doesn't work with Linux either because the only "Linux way" I can see is to have your own way (i.e. infinite customization potential). With Mac the system is very stable (it does have issues, especially around multiple users logged in at the same time, but overall it's very good) and most of the defaults are quite sensible once you get used to them. If you refuse to "go mac" then you're setting yourself up for a continuous upstream battle of never ending customization. And if you're going to spend so much time administrating your machine instead of using it you may as well use Windows or Linux.

berntb 16y ago

>>I recently switched to using a mac after a long time of pc+linux, the most jarring part of the change was dealing with the community. I'm jaded from reading too many language war trolls... :-) What gets my goat are the higher prices for everything -- today there is a repair bill for my Mac portable which would pay for an ok Linux laptop... :-( (Apple sell some guarantee extension, but I thought naively that I didn't move the portable around enough for it to break. :-( But maybe it is me; my work Lenovo T60 isn't that steady, either...) I'll buy the argument that Apple do design (GUI, hardware and O/S integration) better, but I really don't see that much of a win compared to Linux for using a browser, bash and Emacs.

bradleyland 16y ago

In defense of... Long time Apple users frequently encounter questions like: "How do I make the close button appear on the right?" "How do I make the application close when I close the window?" "How do I make the window fill the screen when I click the plus." These questions are like buckshot on Mac forums. They're posted every day, despite the fact that there are readily available (by searching) answers, or good philosophical reasons why "it doesn't work that way" on a Mac. I'm not saying that you asked one of those questions, but there are many similar, but more complex, questions that evoke the same reaction. Many Mac users like they way OS X works, and wouldn't want it to work more like Windows/GNOME/KDE/etc. This results in a hostile reaction when users come along suggesting the like. This doesn't justify a hostile attitude, but it does explain where it comes from.