4 ms·

In an ideal world this would be feasible. Few people have the pricing power for their labor to do this. I'd classify what you call a failed business transacti

by skh 8y ago

In an ideal world this would be feasible. Few people have the pricing power for their labor to do this. I'd classify what you call a failed business transaction as a failure of government to enact necessary labor laws.

bb88 8y ago
So in a world where there's a glut of labor, you're absolutely right. We, however, are not in a glut of labor for software engineers and game designers. And besides, if you explained to the employer the risks you forsee in joining their company, they will most likely understand that reason for asking for a higher salary than the norm.
- HarryHirsch 8y ago
  We, however, are not in a glut of labor for software engineers and game designers If that's true, why are you folks working in open offices and are wearing noise-cancelling headphones?
  - BigJono 8y ago
    Because the price of rent in major city centres is ludicrous, I assume.
- skh 8y ago
  I’m thinking beyond software engineers. I’m thinking about people who don’t have pricing power for their labor and are not at all in a position to negotiate. They have to rely on government to help them with unequal balance in power when it comes to pricing for their labor.
- speeder 8y ago
  I have a game design degree... And there are waaaaay more of us than there are companies to hire us. I ended working with other things because all game companies I tried wanted to offer minimum wages because there was tons of people trying to get into the industry so no reason to offer more
- pcwalton 8y ago
  There absolutely is far more labor than positions available for game designers. Same for game programmers, many of whom have education and background so specific to games that they are effectively unemployable outside that industry. There are a bunch of schools that train hundreds of students on nothing but how to build high-level game logic in Unity. Almost everyone directly involved in production of game titles (i.e. not middleware) would be financially much better off taking the skills they already have and working in another industry—e.g. management for game designers, tech for programmers—with the possible exceptions of artists and musicians.
  - bb88 8y ago
    To some extent, you're right. Point taken, there is a glut of game engineers. However, your comment about people being virtually unemployable outside the game industry rings hollow. In the course of my career, there have been many people from a variety of backgrounds that became full fledged software engineers. One was a truck driver who became a top Java coder at the company I used to work for. And the game engineer has a step up on that guy, since he actually understands how to code. He just needs to understand the way the web works.
pavlov 8y ago
Yes, this is something that can be fixed by law. At least my native country Finland has a sort of public bankruptcy insurance (“palkkaturva”) that extends automatically to all employees. In the event of a bankruptcy leaving you with unpaid wages, you file an application with the same office that handles unemployment benefits, and they will recompensate you. C-level managers are exempt.
- Aeolun 8y ago
  But taxes!
- sonnyblarney 8y ago
  This is something entirely different. And FYI a strong incentive for companies to never offer any kind of severance in these situations since it's all socialized. Better to just be transparent about things so employees can properly consider the risk in the situation.
  - toomuchtodo 8y ago
    Better it be required by law and provided by the government than you hoping you'll get severance and being beholden to a company's "generosity", and the company include the additional tax payments as cost of doing business (same as the other employment taxes they're required to pay).
    - sonnyblarney 8y ago
      The issue is severance during company bankruptcy. Nobody ever expects companies to be 'generous' that's not a thing - the issues are in contracts like anything else.
      - toomuchtodo 8y ago
        Severance is never guaranteed though, bankruptcy or otherwise. If a company is going bankrupt, of course they're not going to have the funds to pay severance when closing up shop. Unless I'm misunderstanding the point (and the quotations around generosity were intended to convey that in bankruptcy, that doesn't exist). Regardless, I suppose the end result should be to make unemployment kick in faster so you don't need an insolvent company to provide a severance they don't have the funds to provide.

by skh 8y ago

bb88 8y ago

So in a world where there's a glut of labor, you're absolutely right. We, however, are not in a glut of labor for software engineers and game designers. And besides, if you explained to the employer the risks you forsee in joining their company, they will most likely understand that reason for asking for a higher salary than the norm.

HarryHirsch 8y ago
We, however, are not in a glut of labor for software engineers and game designers If that's true, why are you folks working in open offices and are wearing noise-cancelling headphones?
- BigJono 8y ago
  Because the price of rent in major city centres is ludicrous, I assume.
skh 8y ago
I’m thinking beyond software engineers. I’m thinking about people who don’t have pricing power for their labor and are not at all in a position to negotiate. They have to rely on government to help them with unequal balance in power when it comes to pricing for their labor.
speeder 8y ago
I have a game design degree... And there are waaaaay more of us than there are companies to hire us. I ended working with other things because all game companies I tried wanted to offer minimum wages because there was tons of people trying to get into the industry so no reason to offer more
pcwalton 8y ago
There absolutely is far more labor than positions available for game designers. Same for game programmers, many of whom have education and background so specific to games that they are effectively unemployable outside that industry. There are a bunch of schools that train hundreds of students on nothing but how to build high-level game logic in Unity. Almost everyone directly involved in production of game titles (i.e. not middleware) would be financially much better off taking the skills they already have and working in another industry—e.g. management for game designers, tech for programmers—with the possible exceptions of artists and musicians.
- bb88 8y ago
  To some extent, you're right. Point taken, there is a glut of game engineers. However, your comment about people being virtually unemployable outside the game industry rings hollow. In the course of my career, there have been many people from a variety of backgrounds that became full fledged software engineers. One was a truck driver who became a top Java coder at the company I used to work for. And the game engineer has a step up on that guy, since he actually understands how to code. He just needs to understand the way the web works.

pavlov 8y ago

Yes, this is something that can be fixed by law. At least my native country Finland has a sort of public bankruptcy insurance (“palkkaturva”) that extends automatically to all employees. In the event of a bankruptcy leaving you with unpaid wages, you file an application with the same office that handles unemployment benefits, and they will recompensate you. C-level managers are exempt.

Aeolun 8y ago
But taxes!
sonnyblarney 8y ago
This is something entirely different. And FYI a strong incentive for companies to never offer any kind of severance in these situations since it's all socialized. Better to just be transparent about things so employees can properly consider the risk in the situation.
- toomuchtodo 8y ago
  Better it be required by law and provided by the government than you hoping you'll get severance and being beholden to a company's "generosity", and the company include the additional tax payments as cost of doing business (same as the other employment taxes they're required to pay).
  - sonnyblarney 8y ago
    The issue is severance during company bankruptcy. Nobody ever expects companies to be 'generous' that's not a thing - the issues are in contracts like anything else.
    - toomuchtodo 8y ago
      Severance is never guaranteed though, bankruptcy or otherwise. If a company is going bankrupt, of course they're not going to have the funds to pay severance when closing up shop. Unless I'm misunderstanding the point (and the quotations around generosity were intended to convey that in bankruptcy, that doesn't exist). Regardless, I suppose the end result should be to make unemployment kick in faster so you don't need an insolvent company to provide a severance they don't have the funds to provide.