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I am a Linux developer and contributor for a few decades and the code of conduct simply killed any interest in contributing to it. It won't take long until back

I am a Linux developer and contributor for a few decades and the code of conduct simply killed any interest in contributing to it. It won't take long until backdoors are introduced on Linux. Activists that joined the community for money will have full control and the ability of banning any criticism. We really need Linus back.

ndury 8y ago
To this day I remain baffled he actually stepped down. A black day in tech history if you ask me..
- glandium 8y ago
  He didn't step down. He's taking a break. It's not the first time he takes a break either. Let's not be too alarmist.
throwaway_9832 8y ago
It was the same for me when Go introduced the CoC. I remember a witch-hunt conducted by someone on one of the important developers because of his language on some other forum. It just reeked of BS and pseudo superiority. I consider myself tolerant and liberal yet I find it bad. I wish people realise that CoC is not a passive constitution. It becomes an active weapon.. and most victims are the ones who actually contribute to the code. I am looking for linux's downfall now.
- vesak 8y ago
  Rust, the programming language project, is one of the most inclusive projects there is, and they have a strong CoC. They seem to be doing fine. I don't think this is going to kill Linux. As for Linus's vacation/break/whatever, it's good that they're practicing giving the reins away. It is bound to happen at some future anyway. It's equally good that they're practicing behaving well, because it's quite possible that the next project lead will not have the history and personality to make bad communication work -- and that could destroy Linux.
  - aikah 8y ago
    > is one of the most inclusive projects there is There is absolutely no proof a CoC drives "inclusiveness", whatever it means, however there are multiple examples where codes of conducts were used to exclude contributors because they said something someone did not like in a setting completely unrelated to the project community. https://www.inc.com/sonya-mann/drupal-larry-garfield-gor.html https://www.inc.com/sonya-mann/drupal-larry-garfield-gor.htm... CoC are political tools to eliminate diversity of ideas and impose an "intersectional" mindset on all contributors, under threat of exclusion. Larry did not harass anybody in the Drupal community yet was kicked out of any official Drupal related conferences and cannot contribute to the project anymore, just because he shared a fetish with his wife someone did not approve of.
    - vesak 8y ago
      >CoC are political tools to eliminate diversity of ideas How so?
    - pjc50 8y ago
      If you read the official Drupal statement it comes across very differently: https://www.drupal.org/association/blog/drupal-association-and-project-lead-statement-regarding-larry-garfield https://www.drupal.org/association/blog/drupal-association-a... There was a dispute which was being handled privately, and in consultation with Larry, but he decided to attack the project in public over it.
      - deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
      - CryptoRetired 8y ago
        The spin and misrepresentation in that article is a perfect example- take a consensual action of an adult and pretend like they were being coerced, in order to smear a guy who has not committed a crime. This is exactly how it’s done every single time. Vague accusations or outright lies are used to characterize someone and demand they be removed or punished. The reality is they don’t like his sexual choices. It’s literally the same as if Christians went after a gay man like me and claimed I should be removed because I’m a criminal committing sodomy (in my own home they assume) which is illegal in many states.
kmmbvnr_ 8y ago
Sounds like conspiracy theory. There is no relationship between introducing CoC and adding backdoors.
- 08-15 8y ago
  That's a suspiciously specific denial.
Certhas 8y ago
Because behaving like a decent human being is that hard, isn't it? If a code of conduct hurts your feelings that much maybe you're just not cut out for collaborative work. I really wonder where the great fear that CoCs will be abused to shut down disagreement comes from. I am not a fan of policing language, but there just aren't many real examples of such abuse out there. Here is the actual list of examples from the CoC. Which of these do you need to do in order to feel happy to contribute to Linux development? +Examples of unacceptable behavior by participants include: + +* The use of sexualized language or imagery and unwelcome sexual attention or + advances +* Trolling, insulting/derogatory comments, and personal or political attacks +* Public or private harassment +* Publishing others’ private information, such as a physical or electronic + address, without explicit permission +* Other conduct which could reasonably be considered inappropriate in a + professional setting Fight overreach, by all means. Make sure that the CoC contains means to fight overreach. That's all good. But the whole "I can't contribute to this project anymore because I find SJWs offensive" whinging strikes me as deeply hypocritical.
- patrickg_zill 8y ago
  What commits did you get accepted into the kernel? Code talks, bs walks...
- rndgermandude 8y ago
  > Because behaving like a decent human being is that hard, isn't it? If a code of conduct hurts your feelings that much maybe you're just not cut out for collaborative work. This is a personal attack, very thinly veiled. If Hacker News had the same code of conduct, your account would have to be banned at worst.
  - Certhas 8y ago
    That's fair, it's definitely a way to read this. I shouldn't respond to hyperbolic language with the like. I'll edit it. Edit: Too late, I can't edit anymore unfortunately. Let me rephrase: "Behaving like a decent human being isn't that hard. It's work that anyone who wants to work in a collaborative project can reasonably be expected to do. If this is objectionable to you, then maybe this collaboration isn't for you."
hefty 8y ago
> the code of conduct simply killed any interest in contributing to it It looks like the only plausible way to undo the addition of the CoC is if enough contributors rescind the license to use their contribution. Given that the kernel is licensed under GPL v2, this seems to be a real possibility (GPL v3 prevents this scenario).
alkonaut 8y ago
> the code of conduct simply killed any interest in contributing to it. Just to balance that statement out: any projects with discourse sounding like the LKML of the past I'm completely uninterested in helping. I think I represent a larger group of developers than those scared off by a CoC.
vesak 8y ago
I hope Linus manages to not see what sort of an absurd shitstorm happened during his absence.
mishurov 8y ago
This. I want to continue to use the based and red-pilled Linux instead of the SJW version.
- tomlock 8y ago
  Did you know the term "red-pilled" comes from a movie written by two trans women? Really makes you think.
  - TotempaaltJ 8y ago
    > Really makes you think. Oh yea? What about?
    - tomlock 8y ago
      I dunno, maybe there's a "non-SJW" version of that term that might be more suitable to use in this context? Considering we're all so passionate about using those versions :)
topmonk 8y ago
Can't the kernel just be forked by people who don't like this CoC?
- GW150914 8y ago
  Presumably they realize that it would be an unproductive dead end next to the original, and don’t want to become a subject of mockery. They want to make noise and rattle their cages, and that’s where their commitment ends. It’s hard to see this extended reaction to something that is at the end of the day incredibly common and banal, as more than trying to suck up the air of publicity while its fresh. After all, people really do care about Linux kernel, so for a short time their “ideas” are given a hearing they would otherwise never seriously be given.
  - topmonk 8y ago
    It's ironic that you think the reason they don't want to create an environment to avoid using a CoC that prohibits mockery is that they are afraid of being mocked. I also don't think this rejection of PC culture is as silly and as small of a movement as you think. But time will tell.
    - GW150914 8y ago
      Yeah, time will tell, although to be fair the same was said incessantly by the likes of GamerGate and they’ve just been folded into the larger alt-right and forgotten by most. In a sense, time has already told, and at the end of the day nobody has time for the petulant who frame everything in terms of “sjw’s” and basic human decency as “PC culture.” Tragically that group (having a surfeit of free time) is excellent at amplifying their own noise online, but inevitably it’s recognized as the same old noise, utterly lacking signal, and people move on until the alt-right concocts a new-sounding nontroversy.
      - topmonk 8y ago
        Do you realize that Linus most likely took a break because of this, and you talk about basic human decency? How about supporting the work of intellectual giants, and not worrying so much when their communication style doesn't match your cookie-cutter ideals of what communication should be? How about not taking the term I used, "PC culture", and using it to passive aggressively disparage me as someone petulant who frame everything in terms of "sjw's"? (the term "sjw" in quotes although I never wrote that, but assuredly, this is how you believe I think.) Yes, gamer gate settled down, because the media couldn't keep a controversy going and generate clicks forever. But this is not what I'm talking about. It's people like me, other developers, and now the developers of the linux kernel as well speaking up and trying to reign in this insanity, which you seem blind to. Yea, so I don't believe that your conclusion that this is just a flash in the pan, and will be forgotten in the historical context, is correct, but instead just further evidence that the pot is starting to boil, and will eventually be the beginning of actual correction to this high-handed bullshit that we have been fed from those supporting crap like this CoC.

ndury 8y ago

To this day I remain baffled he actually stepped down. A black day in tech history if you ask me..

glandium 8y ago
He didn't step down. He's taking a break. It's not the first time he takes a break either. Let's not be too alarmist.

throwaway_9832 8y ago

It was the same for me when Go introduced the CoC. I remember a witch-hunt conducted by someone on one of the important developers because of his language on some other forum. It just reeked of BS and pseudo superiority. I consider myself tolerant and liberal yet I find it bad. I wish people realise that CoC is not a passive constitution. It becomes an active weapon.. and most victims are the ones who actually contribute to the code. I am looking for linux's downfall now.

vesak 8y ago
Rust, the programming language project, is one of the most inclusive projects there is, and they have a strong CoC. They seem to be doing fine. I don't think this is going to kill Linux. As for Linus's vacation/break/whatever, it's good that they're practicing giving the reins away. It is bound to happen at some future anyway. It's equally good that they're practicing behaving well, because it's quite possible that the next project lead will not have the history and personality to make bad communication work -- and that could destroy Linux.
- aikah 8y ago
  > is one of the most inclusive projects there is There is absolutely no proof a CoC drives "inclusiveness", whatever it means, however there are multiple examples where codes of conducts were used to exclude contributors because they said something someone did not like in a setting completely unrelated to the project community. https://www.inc.com/sonya-mann/drupal-larry-garfield-gor.html https://www.inc.com/sonya-mann/drupal-larry-garfield-gor.htm... CoC are political tools to eliminate diversity of ideas and impose an "intersectional" mindset on all contributors, under threat of exclusion. Larry did not harass anybody in the Drupal community yet was kicked out of any official Drupal related conferences and cannot contribute to the project anymore, just because he shared a fetish with his wife someone did not approve of.
  - vesak 8y ago
    >CoC are political tools to eliminate diversity of ideas How so?
  - pjc50 8y ago
    If you read the official Drupal statement it comes across very differently: https://www.drupal.org/association/blog/drupal-association-and-project-lead-statement-regarding-larry-garfield https://www.drupal.org/association/blog/drupal-association-a... There was a dispute which was being handled privately, and in consultation with Larry, but he decided to attack the project in public over it.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
    - CryptoRetired 8y ago
      The spin and misrepresentation in that article is a perfect example- take a consensual action of an adult and pretend like they were being coerced, in order to smear a guy who has not committed a crime. This is exactly how it’s done every single time. Vague accusations or outright lies are used to characterize someone and demand they be removed or punished. The reality is they don’t like his sexual choices. It’s literally the same as if Christians went after a gay man like me and claimed I should be removed because I’m a criminal committing sodomy (in my own home they assume) which is illegal in many states.

kmmbvnr_ 8y ago

Sounds like conspiracy theory. There is no relationship between introducing CoC and adding backdoors.

08-15 8y ago
That's a suspiciously specific denial.

Certhas 8y ago

Because behaving like a decent human being is that hard, isn't it? If a code of conduct hurts your feelings that much maybe you're just not cut out for collaborative work. I really wonder where the great fear that CoCs will be abused to shut down disagreement comes from. I am not a fan of policing language, but there just aren't many real examples of such abuse out there. Here is the actual list of examples from the CoC. Which of these do you need to do in order to feel happy to contribute to Linux development? +Examples of unacceptable behavior by participants include: + +* The use of sexualized language or imagery and unwelcome sexual attention or + advances +* Trolling, insulting/derogatory comments, and personal or political attacks +* Public or private harassment +* Publishing others’ private information, such as a physical or electronic + address, without explicit permission +* Other conduct which could reasonably be considered inappropriate in a + professional setting Fight overreach, by all means. Make sure that the CoC contains means to fight overreach. That's all good. But the whole "I can't contribute to this project anymore because I find SJWs offensive" whinging strikes me as deeply hypocritical.

patrickg_zill 8y ago
What commits did you get accepted into the kernel? Code talks, bs walks...
rndgermandude 8y ago
> Because behaving like a decent human being is that hard, isn't it? If a code of conduct hurts your feelings that much maybe you're just not cut out for collaborative work. This is a personal attack, very thinly veiled. If Hacker News had the same code of conduct, your account would have to be banned at worst.
- Certhas 8y ago
  That's fair, it's definitely a way to read this. I shouldn't respond to hyperbolic language with the like. I'll edit it. Edit: Too late, I can't edit anymore unfortunately. Let me rephrase: "Behaving like a decent human being isn't that hard. It's work that anyone who wants to work in a collaborative project can reasonably be expected to do. If this is objectionable to you, then maybe this collaboration isn't for you."

hefty 8y ago

> the code of conduct simply killed any interest in contributing to it It looks like the only plausible way to undo the addition of the CoC is if enough contributors rescind the license to use their contribution. Given that the kernel is licensed under GPL v2, this seems to be a real possibility (GPL v3 prevents this scenario).

alkonaut 8y ago

> the code of conduct simply killed any interest in contributing to it. Just to balance that statement out: any projects with discourse sounding like the LKML of the past I'm completely uninterested in helping. I think I represent a larger group of developers than those scared off by a CoC.

vesak 8y ago

I hope Linus manages to not see what sort of an absurd shitstorm happened during his absence.

mishurov 8y ago

This. I want to continue to use the based and red-pilled Linux instead of the SJW version.

tomlock 8y ago
Did you know the term "red-pilled" comes from a movie written by two trans women? Really makes you think.
- TotempaaltJ 8y ago
  > Really makes you think. Oh yea? What about?
  - tomlock 8y ago
    I dunno, maybe there's a "non-SJW" version of that term that might be more suitable to use in this context? Considering we're all so passionate about using those versions :)

topmonk 8y ago

Can't the kernel just be forked by people who don't like this CoC?

GW150914 8y ago
Presumably they realize that it would be an unproductive dead end next to the original, and don’t want to become a subject of mockery. They want to make noise and rattle their cages, and that’s where their commitment ends. It’s hard to see this extended reaction to something that is at the end of the day incredibly common and banal, as more than trying to suck up the air of publicity while its fresh. After all, people really do care about Linux kernel, so for a short time their “ideas” are given a hearing they would otherwise never seriously be given.
- topmonk 8y ago
  It's ironic that you think the reason they don't want to create an environment to avoid using a CoC that prohibits mockery is that they are afraid of being mocked. I also don't think this rejection of PC culture is as silly and as small of a movement as you think. But time will tell.
  - GW150914 8y ago
    Yeah, time will tell, although to be fair the same was said incessantly by the likes of GamerGate and they’ve just been folded into the larger alt-right and forgotten by most. In a sense, time has already told, and at the end of the day nobody has time for the petulant who frame everything in terms of “sjw’s” and basic human decency as “PC culture.” Tragically that group (having a surfeit of free time) is excellent at amplifying their own noise online, but inevitably it’s recognized as the same old noise, utterly lacking signal, and people move on until the alt-right concocts a new-sounding nontroversy.
    - topmonk 8y ago
      Do you realize that Linus most likely took a break because of this, and you talk about basic human decency? How about supporting the work of intellectual giants, and not worrying so much when their communication style doesn't match your cookie-cutter ideals of what communication should be? How about not taking the term I used, "PC culture", and using it to passive aggressively disparage me as someone petulant who frame everything in terms of "sjw's"? (the term "sjw" in quotes although I never wrote that, but assuredly, this is how you believe I think.) Yes, gamer gate settled down, because the media couldn't keep a controversy going and generate clicks forever. But this is not what I'm talking about. It's people like me, other developers, and now the developers of the linux kernel as well speaking up and trying to reign in this insanity, which you seem blind to. Yea, so I don't believe that your conclusion that this is just a flash in the pan, and will be forgotten in the historical context, is correct, but instead just further evidence that the pot is starting to boil, and will eventually be the beginning of actual correction to this high-handed bullshit that we have been fed from those supporting crap like this CoC.