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More scary: They are just using the information that identifies you, that they already have, and are tying it to your face in a 100% verified way. By which I me

More scary: They are just using the information that identifies you, that they already have, and are tying it to your face in a 100% verified way. By which I mean that they now have a database of people’s IDs along with what is most certainly a scan of their face. Now other companies will offer large amounts of money for this data because they can identify you when you enter stores, walk by things, have your picture online, etc. This is different to let’s say Facebook because the scans are made at a booth with professional scanning equipment, not some person’s crappy holiday picture with too much backlight. Also, there is no doubt about who is scanned while on social media you might get on someone’s pictures and Facebook will ask “is this James?” Ehm maybe. Not with delta though. In a few years you will get extorted for this info bacausenif you don’t let your face get scanned, you can’t fly. Complete distopia.

rosser 8y ago
How do you imagine they aren't scanning your passport and driver's license photos, which you also need to fly/drive, and are also "100% verified" — because they are people's IDs — already anyway? EDIT: Re: the "quality" of those photos: Because "they" already have the original image that was printed on your license or passport. Images really don't need to be that big or high quality to identifiably determine your facial features.
- mosselman 8y ago
  a. 2D photos are not as valuable b. They might not be allowed to. This face-scanning 'service' is an agreement between you and Delta, not the government and you.
- Jaruzel 8y ago
  I would argue that the photo on passports and licence cards, is too small and typically covered with a reflective security logo, to be good enough to extract useful point data for facial recognition.
  - zo1 8y ago
    Passport photos as well. Unless they're digitally encoded such that they can be extracted, they're usually quite bad due to watermark.
    - rosser 8y ago
      I'm not talking about scanning your passport when you hand it to the customs agent. I'm talking about scanning the photo you gave them to make your passport with. Why, for example, do you think they've started rejecting passport photos where you're wearing glasses, even if you otherwise wear them all of the time?
- Johnny555 8y ago
  How are they scanning my driver's license photo when they aren't scanning it a machine at all, and even if they did, the photo is not encoded to be digitally read, so they'd just get a relatively low quality image scan.
  - closeparen 8y ago
    Your drivers license photo is already in a government database when it’s taken at the DMV.
- Pietertje 8y ago
  This is Delta which do not have a copy or scan of your passport - just your textual info..., different to customs which do have this. Also note that quality of Delta's photo booth will be much better than a copy of your passport.
  - tjohns 8y ago
    This system was designed by CBP, not Delta. So yes, it has access to the passport database. (See my other post here for details.)
- clubm8 8y ago
  >How do you imagine they aren't scanning your passport and driver's license photos, which you also need to fly/drive, and are also "100% verified" — because they are people's IDs — already anyway? DL photos are an extremely specific specification (no smiling, headgear etc) and only 1 angle. Delta could gather a much richer data set with these cameras.
walterbell 8y ago
If there are new laws which permit this data collection, do we need new laws to restrict usage of the information and new penalties for misuse?
- chii 8y ago
  The law probably hasn't caught up with this level of tech yet. Which sucks a lot.
tjohns 8y ago
> "They are just using the information that identifies you, that they already have, and are tying it to your face in a 100% verified way. By which I mean that they now have a database of people’s IDs along with what is most certainly a scan of their face." They're using your passport number, and either matching that with your passport file photo at the Department of State (for US citizens) or from the immigration entry database (for everyone else). This part's not that sophisticated. Not to say there's not plenty of things to be concerned about here, but this information has always been readily available on the government's end. It's just the most visible use of it to date.
- mosselman 8y ago
  > has always been readily available on the government's end Exactly, the government, not some company that is building a database full of personal info connected to proper face-scans. This data is very valuable for advertisers/other ill-willed companies.
windexh8er 8y ago
I'm curious: could the side effect of this be a legitimate FaceID bypass if they are using appropriate stereoscopic imaging?
pacala 8y ago
In other news, there goes Snap’s market value. Time to short.

rosser 8y ago

How do you imagine they aren't scanning your passport and driver's license photos, which you also need to fly/drive, and are also "100% verified" — because they are people's IDs — already anyway? EDIT: Re: the "quality" of those photos: Because "they" already have the original image that was printed on your license or passport. Images really don't need to be that big or high quality to identifiably determine your facial features.

mosselman 8y ago
a. 2D photos are not as valuable b. They might not be allowed to. This face-scanning 'service' is an agreement between you and Delta, not the government and you.
Jaruzel 8y ago
I would argue that the photo on passports and licence cards, is too small and typically covered with a reflective security logo, to be good enough to extract useful point data for facial recognition.
- zo1 8y ago
  Passport photos as well. Unless they're digitally encoded such that they can be extracted, they're usually quite bad due to watermark.
  - rosser 8y ago
    I'm not talking about scanning your passport when you hand it to the customs agent. I'm talking about scanning the photo you gave them to make your passport with. Why, for example, do you think they've started rejecting passport photos where you're wearing glasses, even if you otherwise wear them all of the time?
Johnny555 8y ago
How are they scanning my driver's license photo when they aren't scanning it a machine at all, and even if they did, the photo is not encoded to be digitally read, so they'd just get a relatively low quality image scan.
- closeparen 8y ago
  Your drivers license photo is already in a government database when it’s taken at the DMV.
Pietertje 8y ago
This is Delta which do not have a copy or scan of your passport - just your textual info..., different to customs which do have this. Also note that quality of Delta's photo booth will be much better than a copy of your passport.
- tjohns 8y ago
  This system was designed by CBP, not Delta. So yes, it has access to the passport database. (See my other post here for details.)
clubm8 8y ago
>How do you imagine they aren't scanning your passport and driver's license photos, which you also need to fly/drive, and are also "100% verified" — because they are people's IDs — already anyway? DL photos are an extremely specific specification (no smiling, headgear etc) and only 1 angle. Delta could gather a much richer data set with these cameras.

walterbell 8y ago

If there are new laws which permit this data collection, do we need new laws to restrict usage of the information and new penalties for misuse?

chii 8y ago
The law probably hasn't caught up with this level of tech yet. Which sucks a lot.

tjohns 8y ago

> "They are just using the information that identifies you, that they already have, and are tying it to your face in a 100% verified way. By which I mean that they now have a database of people’s IDs along with what is most certainly a scan of their face." They're using your passport number, and either matching that with your passport file photo at the Department of State (for US citizens) or from the immigration entry database (for everyone else). This part's not that sophisticated. Not to say there's not plenty of things to be concerned about here, but this information has always been readily available on the government's end. It's just the most visible use of it to date.

mosselman 8y ago
> has always been readily available on the government's end Exactly, the government, not some company that is building a database full of personal info connected to proper face-scans. This data is very valuable for advertisers/other ill-willed companies.

windexh8er 8y ago

I'm curious: could the side effect of this be a legitimate FaceID bypass if they are using appropriate stereoscopic imaging?

pacala 8y ago

In other news, there goes Snap’s market value. Time to short.