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“Humans lack empathy”. Compared to what?

by smudgymcscmudge 8y ago

ivm 8y ago
Compared to a perfect society where we always try to understand others before acting towards them.
drewmol 8y ago
Other humans I suppose. If most humans espoused more empathy it would be a global benifit.
- everdrive 8y ago
  I don't think that's quite so self-evident. People who are high in empathy have their own blind spots. It can be difficult to understand what the best government policy might be when your head is stuck full of other people's feelings. Being able to separate yourself from the personal and emotional world of high-empathy can often allow for something closer than would be possible otherwise. The high-fidelity emotions one with an abundance of empathy is burdened with can prevent them from moving past ad-hoc cases, or shut their mind to arguments that don't support an aggrieved group's emotions. On a personal level, it's not even the case necessarily that people with greater empathy are kinder people. It's sometimes the case that they are simply better armed to harm you than someone who can't tell from your body language if their attack wounded you -- if it made you upset.
  - drewmol 8y ago
    I agree that overly emotion based decision making can lead to stagnation. I often perceive the close mindedness you mention to be a problem with the allocation of empathy. It takes a lot of emotional maturity and measure to empathise with the bad guys as well.
    - ksdale 8y ago
      This is an underappreciated point. In a sense, it's only empathy for the "bad" guys that matters. Everyone treats the "good" guys well, regardless of empathy. Empathy is exactly what allows you to treat the bad guys like the good guys, in the sense of according them basic decency and good faith. If you only give empathy to those who "deserve" it, you're basically doing the same thing as people who have no empathy and just treat people well or badly based on arbitrary tribal markers.
    - everdrive 8y ago
      Given this line of argument, I'm too used to seeing empathy poorly allocated. And would agree with your initial point.

“Humans lack empathy”. Compared to what?

ivm 8y ago

Compared to a perfect society where we always try to understand others before acting towards them.

drewmol 8y ago

Other humans I suppose. If most humans espoused more empathy it would be a global benifit.

everdrive 8y ago
I don't think that's quite so self-evident. People who are high in empathy have their own blind spots. It can be difficult to understand what the best government policy might be when your head is stuck full of other people's feelings. Being able to separate yourself from the personal and emotional world of high-empathy can often allow for something closer than would be possible otherwise. The high-fidelity emotions one with an abundance of empathy is burdened with can prevent them from moving past ad-hoc cases, or shut their mind to arguments that don't support an aggrieved group's emotions. On a personal level, it's not even the case necessarily that people with greater empathy are kinder people. It's sometimes the case that they are simply better armed to harm you than someone who can't tell from your body language if their attack wounded you -- if it made you upset.
- drewmol 8y ago
  I agree that overly emotion based decision making can lead to stagnation. I often perceive the close mindedness you mention to be a problem with the allocation of empathy. It takes a lot of emotional maturity and measure to empathise with the bad guys as well.
  - ksdale 8y ago
    This is an underappreciated point. In a sense, it's only empathy for the "bad" guys that matters. Everyone treats the "good" guys well, regardless of empathy. Empathy is exactly what allows you to treat the bad guys like the good guys, in the sense of according them basic decency and good faith. If you only give empathy to those who "deserve" it, you're basically doing the same thing as people who have no empathy and just treat people well or badly based on arbitrary tribal markers.
  - everdrive 8y ago
    Given this line of argument, I'm too used to seeing empathy poorly allocated. And would agree with your initial point.