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Marzipan: Porting iOS Apps to the Mac
- rwc 8y agoThis direction gives me huge hope we'll soon see mouse support for iPad. It's the greatest handicap to doing productive work, particularly text editing.
- haolez 8y agoIf this happens, I might try using only an iPad as my development machine. All I need are some cloud machines with Docker, SSH and maybe Cloud9/Che in some cases (and a Bluetooth keyboard and mouse, of course).
- reacharavindh 8y agoI'd totally rely on my Desktop for any serious work, and use such a mythical iPad as the mobile machine I can use to SSH into servers, VNC into desktop, run simple editors, email etc. But, I don't think we're going to see that...
- nonane 8y agoI’m a developer on Jump Desktop - a Remote Desktop app for iOS which supports 2 specific models of external mice. Along with that it also supports external monitor support with full resolution (not mirroring). Take a look here: https://jumpdesktop.com https://jumpdesktop.com. If you’re interested in a free copy shoot me an email: support@jumpdesktop.com .
- jclardy 8y agoThis plus the rumor of USB-C replacing lightning on the iPad - there is supposedly much more external display support in the next iOS beta. External screens as an extension don't really work without some kind of cursor - iOS already supports mirroring the display so this is likely something new.
- toasterlovin 8y agoFWIW, I think the external display support in iOS 12 may be related to the fact that switching to USB-C means that Apple's display adapter no longer works. That display adapter was essentially a tiny computer, so I would imagine there was a lot of logic they could shunt off onto that adapter and not have to implement in iOS, especially since it seemed like they were very resource constrained in terms of iOS engineering for a long time. Now that USB-C obsoletes that display adapter and also natively supports video, they may just be in a position where it makes more sense to do all the work in iOS rather than develop another hardware adapter. Of course, the optimistic side of me takes this plus Marzipan and comes to the conclusion that they are putting all the pieces in place for iOS to fully support laptop and desktop form factors and work flows. Fingers crossed.
- jmisavage 8y agoI think we're very close. You can already tap and hold on the spacebar in iOS 12 and it turns into a trackpad like control for moving the cursor in textfields.
- alfredmuffin 8y agoYou can do this on iPads with 2-fingers.
- rwc 8y agoThis has been present since iOS 10, and on iPhones with force touch you can force touch the keyboard anywhere and it'll turn into a trackpad.
- ksec 8y agoSomehow on iOS 12 my iPhone 6s only works on Spacebar, not anywhere on the Keyboard.
- Matthias247 8y agodo you have 3d touch enabled? Afaik if it's disabled only the spacebar method works. If it is enabled only the force touch method works.
- erreJulian 8y agoI had no idea this existed! This is quite awsome, although I mostly use my iPad with a BT keyboard.
- isatty 8y agoiPhone XS - works anywhere on the keyboard but I think apple may change that because the XR doesn’t have force touch. I hope not though.
- codetrotter 8y agoI never knew about this feature. This is great, thank you both! Now I just need to get used to using this feature. I jumped a bit back and forth while writing this comment and found myself reflexively using the old way, but with a little bit of time and deliberation I am sure that I will soon be using either the spacebar or force touch without having to think about it :)
- bunderbunder 8y agoIs full-on mouse support required, or do you really just need an easier way to reposition the cursor and making selections? If it's the latter, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see Apple come up with something that only solves the latter.
- jclardy 8y agoI think the biggest problem comes from supporting external displays. For me to fully swap to iOS as a development platform (ignoring missing software currently) I would need to be able to plug into a larger display at some point, and have a way of controlling apps on that display without using touch at all.
- bunderbunder 8y agoOnce you get to that point, though, it seems like what you're really looking for is a computer and not a mobile device. Perhaps what's missing is not an iPad with mouse support, but a Mac with a more Surface-like form factor.
- petecox 8y agoI'm posting using a wireless mouse and USB keyboard from my Android desktop, a 4K tv box. Android does support mouse input; Apple can at any time release a typecover for iPad with a trackpad. They choose not to.
- scarface74 8y agoiOS already supports two displays with AirPlay. You can have a separate image on the device and the display.
- rwc 8y agoI have no problem with a mouse solution that's only active in textareas. But, as others note, if the external display is a real option then a mouse becomes necessary. Personally, I still doubt the iPad will drive external displays.
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- Angostura 8y agoHave you though of getting a pen?
- Svexax 8y agoApple has been rapidly improving the power of its processors in iOS devices. At the same time, it has been promoting privacy. Now it’s giving developers an incentive to develop apps for iOS that are friendly to desktop users. And Apple hasn’t been giving Macbooks much attention lately. This tells me Apple plans an iOS desktop mode. You could pair a monitor, keyboard, and mouse with your phone and work at a desk. All your apps, settings, and files stay physically with you, never leaving your device as you carry it to work/school/home/etc. iOS devices would be used like the Nintendo Switch but for desktop computing in addition to gaming.
- asdff 8y agoApple would rather you buy a mac at home, a mac in the office, and an ipad for the commute--all tied together and locked in the apple garden with an icloud subscription--than let you get away with all this use out of just one device.
- bengotow 8y agoUnfortunately, Maripan is about porting iOS apps to the Mac, not the other way around. Apple's work on Marzipan isn't really an indication they're planning to do the inverse and bring Mac apps to iOS or do anything at all re: mouse. (Though maybe better mouse support will get back-ported into UIKit for iOS as a result of them having to do it for macOS? We can cross our fingers!)
- Razengan 8y agoOther than precision, why would you need mouse support on a touchscreen device with an OS that is built and optimized for touch? And you can get better precision from the Apple Pencil or other styli. Mouse-support would actually be a step backwards on an iPad; multitouch lets you do things that are impossible with the single pointer of a mouse, such as interacting with multiple UI elements (like sliders, knobs) at the same time with multiple fingers, even across different apps in split-view. I'm honestly glad iPhones/iPads/Macs don't try to be touchscreen PCs, and I'm glad Apple explores the full breadth of each device's unique strengths, borrowing the best from each other without trying to be each other (except in some cases like wasting the larger screen space on iPads; displaying a single column of Lock Screen widgets or showing 4x4 icons in folders even on the 12.9" iPad.)
- aplummer 8y agoMaybe controversial but I just find holding my arm in the air (assuming the keyboard is attached) to be tiring for big sessions. With a mouse I could relax.
- Razengan 8y agoWith an stylus you can touch while keeping your palm rested. An stylus also gives you added reach which reduces the distance you have to lift your arm. If you need to touch the screen frequently during certain workflows, tilt the iPad at a low angle (so you look down on it) and if you're using a detachable keyboard you can keep it to the side.
- rwc 8y agoPrecision. That’s exactly why I need mouse support. I do not find relying on touch alone an acceptable experience when using an iPad full time as a productivity device.
- rsynnott 8y agoErgonomics, if you’re using it with a keyboard. Which a lot of people seem to these days. Keyboard-and-touchscreen is a bad combination.
- aogl 8y agoDoes this mean that all Apple devices will soon be able to utilise the same input devices? Such as Mice, Keyboards, etc?
- twsted 8y agoNo, it does not mean that.
- yig 8y agoNo OpenGL in Marzipan.
- steipete 8y agoNo OpenGL_ES. And since there are no mac-only APIs yet, that means no OpenGL. But you could do some nasty things to get it at runtime...
- adamnemecek 8y agoMetal is the way to go.
- steipete 8y agoHello Hacker News, Author here. AMA. This was fun to build!
- marmaduke 8y agoHow usable are Mac VMs? I previously tried VBox and VMware but recalled issues making it unusable (eg graphics). It seems like with Hyperkit it should be simple to bring up a macOS VM with SIP diasabled for dev purposes in like 30 seconds.
- steipete 8y agoThey are not great to work with. You can get away with CI, but not as a work machine. No GPU acceleration.