3 ms·

The thing that throws me off about Seattle is that there seems to be a large segment of the population that says, "yes, we have certain problems (homelessness,

The thing that throws me off about Seattle is that there seems to be a large segment of the population that says, "yes, we have certain problems (homelessness, transportation) that we as a community should solve." But then, when it comes to breaking out the wallet and paying for what's needed, either the same people or an even larger majority seem to be vehemently opposed to doing so. I'm not really sure what's going on, is it like this everywhere? Wishing that the problems get fixed by just holding out and hoping something gives?

bobthepanda 8y ago
People are like this everywhere. No one likes taxes. That being said, Seattle did end up funding ST3 (the contemporary referendum in the article) as well as an earlier tax raise to pay for expanding bus services. In fact, even Forward Thrust had a majority of votes, but due to a quirk in how the referendum was organized they needed to pass a 60% threshold.
mrep 8y ago
Not sure where you are getting the "vehemently opposed to breaking out their wallet for transportation" because Seattle is breaking out their wallet to the tune of $53.8 billion for st3 (talked about the proposal in the article and it later passed) which adds 62 miles of track [0] which is in addition to st2 10 years ago which cost $17.8 billion and added 50 miles [1]. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_Transit_3 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_Transit_3 [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_Transit#Sound_Transit_2 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_Transit#Sound_Transit_2
- jupiter90000 8y ago
  Sure -- you noticed that like ~46% of voters choosing on the issue opposed it though right? I mean maybe that's typical to have something like this win by a 4% margin but I'd have to say it's far from a general majority saying, "yep, let's do it." Then you've got the people who probably didn't even vote and found out about it when their car registration fee went up a couple hundred bucks. BTW, I voted for it so I'm aware, I just find it hard to believe it's so borderline and there's folks who seem really angry they need to contribute to the community's well-being. But hey, I guess as someone else said, no one likes to pay taxes.
  - seanmcdirmid 8y ago
    Many issues pass like that. A 4% margin is considered a landslide in presidential politics, we are just that divided as a nation, the Seattle area isn’t immune.
  - jimbobimbo 8y ago
    I voted "no", because I did the math, and I don't think that this project will not be mismanaged, like other projects of this kind of magnitude. Boston's big dig, and California's high-speed train system with ever-increasing costs do not instill a lot of confidence in "this time it'll be different".
  - mrep 8y ago
    > there's folks who seem really angry they need to contribute to the community's well-being I don't think many people are trying to negatively impact the community. They just don't think it is a good investment considering how expensive rail is at being almost a billion dollars a mile and it will take up to 20 years to finish if it all goes according to schedule. One guy I talked to made the argument that in 20 years, we should have self driving busses and if each one costs a million (current busses are like 300,000-600,000 from a quick google search), we could buy 53,800 busses with that money which would service a lot more people in a lot more unique routes which I thought was a pretty decent argument if you believe we will get self driving busses that soon. I would rather have an oversupply of transportation so I say let's do both, but I can see their arguments for balancing taxes to pay for transportation with how much supply is needed.
prolikewh0a 8y ago
You have segregation going on, Rich Republicans and Libertarian Software Engineers are replacing the former more left-wing population of the city and even King County itself. These people don't want to pay for anything because their life is already fine and they get to live close to the city. People are even being pushed out to Pierce & Snohomish Counties. Anyone outside of Seattle doesn't get to vote what goes on in Seattle, only the people who can afford to live there get to vote yet some people spend 12 hours of their day in Seattle with laws & decisions they have to abide by every day which can include laws regarding labor. You have an enormous amount of corporate propaganda that also doesn't want to pay for anything. You have a mayor who is vehemently opposed to public transit unless it benefits Amazon or a sports team. Seattle is fiscally right wing and only pushing further that way.
kevin_thibedeau 8y ago
They're all waiting for Bezos to shell out.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

bobthepanda 8y ago

People are like this everywhere. No one likes taxes. That being said, Seattle did end up funding ST3 (the contemporary referendum in the article) as well as an earlier tax raise to pay for expanding bus services. In fact, even Forward Thrust had a majority of votes, but due to a quirk in how the referendum was organized they needed to pass a 60% threshold.

mrep 8y ago

Not sure where you are getting the "vehemently opposed to breaking out their wallet for transportation" because Seattle is breaking out their wallet to the tune of $53.8 billion for st3 (talked about the proposal in the article and it later passed) which adds 62 miles of track [0] which is in addition to st2 10 years ago which cost $17.8 billion and added 50 miles [1]. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_Transit_3 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_Transit_3 [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_Transit#Sound_Transit_2 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_Transit#Sound_Transit_2

jupiter90000 8y ago
Sure -- you noticed that like ~46% of voters choosing on the issue opposed it though right? I mean maybe that's typical to have something like this win by a 4% margin but I'd have to say it's far from a general majority saying, "yep, let's do it." Then you've got the people who probably didn't even vote and found out about it when their car registration fee went up a couple hundred bucks. BTW, I voted for it so I'm aware, I just find it hard to believe it's so borderline and there's folks who seem really angry they need to contribute to the community's well-being. But hey, I guess as someone else said, no one likes to pay taxes.
- seanmcdirmid 8y ago
  Many issues pass like that. A 4% margin is considered a landslide in presidential politics, we are just that divided as a nation, the Seattle area isn’t immune.
- jimbobimbo 8y ago
  I voted "no", because I did the math, and I don't think that this project will not be mismanaged, like other projects of this kind of magnitude. Boston's big dig, and California's high-speed train system with ever-increasing costs do not instill a lot of confidence in "this time it'll be different".
- mrep 8y ago
  > there's folks who seem really angry they need to contribute to the community's well-being I don't think many people are trying to negatively impact the community. They just don't think it is a good investment considering how expensive rail is at being almost a billion dollars a mile and it will take up to 20 years to finish if it all goes according to schedule. One guy I talked to made the argument that in 20 years, we should have self driving busses and if each one costs a million (current busses are like 300,000-600,000 from a quick google search), we could buy 53,800 busses with that money which would service a lot more people in a lot more unique routes which I thought was a pretty decent argument if you believe we will get self driving busses that soon. I would rather have an oversupply of transportation so I say let's do both, but I can see their arguments for balancing taxes to pay for transportation with how much supply is needed.

prolikewh0a 8y ago

You have segregation going on, Rich Republicans and Libertarian Software Engineers are replacing the former more left-wing population of the city and even King County itself. These people don't want to pay for anything because their life is already fine and they get to live close to the city. People are even being pushed out to Pierce & Snohomish Counties. Anyone outside of Seattle doesn't get to vote what goes on in Seattle, only the people who can afford to live there get to vote yet some people spend 12 hours of their day in Seattle with laws & decisions they have to abide by every day which can include laws regarding labor. You have an enormous amount of corporate propaganda that also doesn't want to pay for anything. You have a mayor who is vehemently opposed to public transit unless it benefits Amazon or a sports team. Seattle is fiscally right wing and only pushing further that way.

kevin_thibedeau 8y ago

They're all waiting for Bezos to shell out.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]