4 ms·

Which specific law(s) do you believe this breaks? While it is illegal for the house to cheat most places, and while a punter may break other laws trying to chea

Which specific law(s) do you believe this breaks? While it is illegal for the house to cheat most places, and while a punter may break other laws trying to cheat (e.g. trespassing, tampering, etc), I'm not aware of a specific law against cheating. I'm also not aware of a law banning the distribution of materials that may help one cheat (except DMCA? Copyright?).

lgas 8y ago
Depends on the jurisdiction but for example in Las Vegas (http://www.gambling-law-us.com/State-Laws/Nevada/ http://www.gambling-law-us.com/State-Laws/Nevada/) I believe this would fall under NRS 465.070 numbers 2, 5, and/or 7.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- Someone1234 8y ago
  2, and 5 only apply to "game[s] or other event[s]" which has a specific definition (namely it is about e.g. sports betting and other live events). 7 doesn't apply at all since he didn't alter or manipulate the machine in question, it is working as intended. Plus the claim was: > in every jurisdiction Nevada has some of the most strict gambling laws in the world (and showing it is illegal in Nevada hasn't even been satisfied yet).
- Asooka 8y ago
  Well, this cheat is equivalent in operation to having a book with all the answers to the quiz and a good index. The two should be equivalently legal, and I strongly suspect someone has tried to sit at a quiz machine with a curated indexed encyclopedia, so we just have to find that precedent.
  - pbhjpbhj 8y ago
    There won't be a precedent because you just can't look up into fast enough, that's why these systems can still exist even with internet search engines.
- jamesough 8y ago
  It's legally not a gambling machine -- it's a 'game of skill', which means you can put it in a pub without a license. Gambling laws don't apply.
Timmah 8y ago
There are laws in the US that ban using any machine that enhances your ability to win, even if you never tamper with the machine. This covers attacking the RNG by analyzing past outcomes and predicting future outcomes of the machine. Not what the OPs post does, but just clarifying that you can be charged with cheating even if you don't tamper in the US.
- TylerE 8y ago
  Wonder if you print a directory indexed by say the first two word of the question. Not sure that would be fast enough but would be fully legal since it isn’t a device. Would be the same thing as a reference on perfect blackjack strategy which any casino allows (and most sell in the gift shop).
- Someone1234 8y ago
  Which laws?
wallflower 8y ago
Even if it does not break any laws, if they suspect you are cheating they can just ban you from the casino and blacklist you from all casinos. Alternatively... There is a scene in the movie Casino where there are two guys collaborating and cheating at a table game. One of the internal security people dressed discretely in a suit walks up with a cattle prod. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYa1IsxGVuc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYa1IsxGVuc
- craftyguy 8y ago
  > There is a scene in the movie Casino where there are two guys collaborating and cheating at a table game. One of the internal security people dressed discretely in a suit walks up with a cattle prod. It's a movie, that would never happen in any big casino (for one, way too many witnesses).
notzuck 8y ago
Computer Misuse Act 1990. I will drop a message to my wider network and see if there is a section that could be interpreted to fit this situation. Two issue would be: 1. Using a computer device to commit fraud. 2. Accessing the ROM which was digitally protected as well as not intended for general public consumption.
- wongarsu 8y ago
  Fraud requires deception, which didn't happen in my eyes. Decrypting the XORd questions and answers could be interpreted as breaking digital protection though.
  - pbhjpbhj 8y ago
    As far as we know he legitimately acquired the ROM, he didn't hack the machine, he learnt about that type of machine. If you used this against a machine in the wild you're using the machine in the intended way. The access is authorised; there's no interdition to using reference sources. It doesn't seem like a breech of UK CMA to me. If the OP published the ROM then it's possibly copyright infringement.
    - jamesough 8y ago
      Yep.

lgas 8y ago

Depends on the jurisdiction but for example in Las Vegas (http://www.gambling-law-us.com/State-Laws/Nevada/ http://www.gambling-law-us.com/State-Laws/Nevada/) I believe this would fall under NRS 465.070 numbers 2, 5, and/or 7.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
Someone1234 8y ago
2, and 5 only apply to "game[s] or other event[s]" which has a specific definition (namely it is about e.g. sports betting and other live events). 7 doesn't apply at all since he didn't alter or manipulate the machine in question, it is working as intended. Plus the claim was: > in every jurisdiction Nevada has some of the most strict gambling laws in the world (and showing it is illegal in Nevada hasn't even been satisfied yet).
Asooka 8y ago
Well, this cheat is equivalent in operation to having a book with all the answers to the quiz and a good index. The two should be equivalently legal, and I strongly suspect someone has tried to sit at a quiz machine with a curated indexed encyclopedia, so we just have to find that precedent.
- pbhjpbhj 8y ago
  There won't be a precedent because you just can't look up into fast enough, that's why these systems can still exist even with internet search engines.
jamesough 8y ago
It's legally not a gambling machine -- it's a 'game of skill', which means you can put it in a pub without a license. Gambling laws don't apply.

Timmah 8y ago

There are laws in the US that ban using any machine that enhances your ability to win, even if you never tamper with the machine. This covers attacking the RNG by analyzing past outcomes and predicting future outcomes of the machine. Not what the OPs post does, but just clarifying that you can be charged with cheating even if you don't tamper in the US.

TylerE 8y ago
Wonder if you print a directory indexed by say the first two word of the question. Not sure that would be fast enough but would be fully legal since it isn’t a device. Would be the same thing as a reference on perfect blackjack strategy which any casino allows (and most sell in the gift shop).
Someone1234 8y ago
Which laws?

wallflower 8y ago

Even if it does not break any laws, if they suspect you are cheating they can just ban you from the casino and blacklist you from all casinos. Alternatively... There is a scene in the movie Casino where there are two guys collaborating and cheating at a table game. One of the internal security people dressed discretely in a suit walks up with a cattle prod. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYa1IsxGVuc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYa1IsxGVuc

craftyguy 8y ago
> There is a scene in the movie Casino where there are two guys collaborating and cheating at a table game. One of the internal security people dressed discretely in a suit walks up with a cattle prod. It's a movie, that would never happen in any big casino (for one, way too many witnesses).

notzuck 8y ago

Computer Misuse Act 1990. I will drop a message to my wider network and see if there is a section that could be interpreted to fit this situation. Two issue would be: 1. Using a computer device to commit fraud. 2. Accessing the ROM which was digitally protected as well as not intended for general public consumption.

wongarsu 8y ago
Fraud requires deception, which didn't happen in my eyes. Decrypting the XORd questions and answers could be interpreted as breaking digital protection though.
- pbhjpbhj 8y ago
  As far as we know he legitimately acquired the ROM, he didn't hack the machine, he learnt about that type of machine. If you used this against a machine in the wild you're using the machine in the intended way. The access is authorised; there's no interdition to using reference sources. It doesn't seem like a breech of UK CMA to me. If the OP published the ROM then it's possibly copyright infringement.
  - jamesough 8y ago
    Yep.