5 ms·

Poison can also be deployed by untrained individuals coerced into service, and bypass metal detectors as well as bullet-proof vests used by paranoid targets.

meowface 8y ago
And an obvious point: Russia wants important enemies to die slow, painful deaths, and to send a message that other enemies will suffer a similar fate. Killing Litvinenko or Skripal with a bullet to the head probably wouldn't have been satisfying or vengeful enough.
- Bendingo 8y ago
  > Russia wants important enemies to die slow, painful deaths > wouldn't have been satisfying or vengeful enough You know this how ?
  - GW150914 8y ago
    > Russia wants important enemies to die slow, painful deaths > wouldn't have been satisfying or vengeful enough You know this how ? Alexander Litvenenko springs to mind, followed by Viktor Yushchenko, Alexander Perepilichny, Anna Politkovskaya (later shot to death), Vladimir Kara-Murza (twice!), the Skripals, Georgi Markov (Ricin... nasty), Karinna Moskalenko, and on and on.
- dvfjsdhgfv 8y ago
  > Russia wants important enemies to die slow I know this is a common oversimplification when talking about governments, but please, could we at last use "Kremlin" instead? Russia is a large country with many people just like us, who want to live, love and have a wonderful time. Sure, at times the public opinion is stirred when some atrocities are reported and you can hear some vocal groups online, but Russians are not different from any other nation in this respect. Their leaders, however, are a different story. You could say Russians have had bad luck with respect to their rulers for centuries. When you look back at what Lenin, Stalin and others did, Putin starts to look like a savior. But they all have a certain attitude and ambitions. So could we please stop saying "Russia" when we don't mean Russian people at all, and common Russians are actually victims of bad policy of their rulers.
  - expathacker 8y ago
    Seeing as Russia has been a democracy for 25 years, isn't this just absolving the Russian populace of any guilt or responsibility over their choice in government, or the actions of said government?
    - Eldt 8y ago
      How democratic exactly do you think their election process is?
      - expathacker 8y ago
        I do not know, do you? I'm guessing that neither of us have observed their election process in person, or are experts in the fairness of their, or any other democratic process. If you are, please school me, I'm a willing student. I am a US citizen, my birth nation has "elected" two presidents who failed to win the popular vote. 2% of my fellow citizens are unable to vote due to felony convictions. On top of this, the practice known as gerrymandering is essentially carte blanche for a state's ruling power to ensure continuous victories due to the complicated nature of an inconsistent federalist voting system.
        meowface 8y ago
        The US's election system has many issues, but Russia's system (at the present moment) is a complete charade. At least with the US system, the rules and loopholes (as stupid as they are) are transparent, known, and understood ahead of time. There's no funny business behind the curtain. In Russia, elections are secretly manipulated by the state. The US is a sometimes-dysfunctional democracy, but Russia doesn't have a democracy at all.
        expathacker 8y ago
        Well, to be a little bit pedantic, the USA doesn't have a democracy either, we have a representative republic. You're speculating as to the state of Russia's democracy. Have you any specific proof of your allegations? I'm guessing your proof lays primarily with that which is published in the media, and the strong statements / research which come out of NATO and other anti-Russian establishments? I can't believe people would vote for Trump, but let's face it, they did because they believed his economy promises. I can't believe people voted for Putin, but Russia's economy has flourished under his reign, before him, people literally starved to death. I can't believe people vote for Erdogan, but Türkiye's economy is magnitudes stronger and fairer than it was before the AKP reign. Perhaps these democracies are working as intended, and people just cast short-sighted, greed-driven votes?
- BurnGpuBurn 8y ago
  Skripal didn't die, and his daughter also didn't die.
  - meowface 8y ago
    No, but they intended him to die.
    - BurnGpuBurn 8y ago
      Not sure about intentions, but I consider it largely established that they were poisoned.
      - meowface 8y ago
        Considering the poison is extremely deadly, that other uninvolved UK citizens died and were injured as a result of exposure, that the poisoning was almost definitely ordered or approved by Putin, and that Putin and other government officials have spoken at length about killing traitors no matter where they go, it seems very likely they intended to kill him but failed. Just making him "really sick" doesn't make much sense, I think. Especially when you consider someone unrelated did die after being exposed.
        BurnGpuBurn 8y ago
        Sure, somebody did something with a poison to get a couple of people sick and dead, for sure. Maybe the intention was to instill fear? To me that is just as plausible as a murder attempt. Also, you'd think that the Russian secret service is not as amateurish as to screw up a job that should be pretty easy for them. And, well, I'm just not very convinced of the "almost definitely ordered or approved by Putin" part, nor the "Putin and other government officials have spoken at length about killing traitors no matter where they go" piece. I have never seen evidence of the former, and honestly never saw or heard the latter either.
joezydeco 8y ago
It's also asynchronous. You could place poison on a doorknob and be thousands of miles away before the incident happens.

meowface 8y ago

And an obvious point: Russia wants important enemies to die slow, painful deaths, and to send a message that other enemies will suffer a similar fate. Killing Litvinenko or Skripal with a bullet to the head probably wouldn't have been satisfying or vengeful enough.

Bendingo 8y ago
> Russia wants important enemies to die slow, painful deaths > wouldn't have been satisfying or vengeful enough You know this how ?
- GW150914 8y ago
  > Russia wants important enemies to die slow, painful deaths > wouldn't have been satisfying or vengeful enough You know this how ? Alexander Litvenenko springs to mind, followed by Viktor Yushchenko, Alexander Perepilichny, Anna Politkovskaya (later shot to death), Vladimir Kara-Murza (twice!), the Skripals, Georgi Markov (Ricin... nasty), Karinna Moskalenko, and on and on.
dvfjsdhgfv 8y ago
> Russia wants important enemies to die slow I know this is a common oversimplification when talking about governments, but please, could we at last use "Kremlin" instead? Russia is a large country with many people just like us, who want to live, love and have a wonderful time. Sure, at times the public opinion is stirred when some atrocities are reported and you can hear some vocal groups online, but Russians are not different from any other nation in this respect. Their leaders, however, are a different story. You could say Russians have had bad luck with respect to their rulers for centuries. When you look back at what Lenin, Stalin and others did, Putin starts to look like a savior. But they all have a certain attitude and ambitions. So could we please stop saying "Russia" when we don't mean Russian people at all, and common Russians are actually victims of bad policy of their rulers.
- expathacker 8y ago
  Seeing as Russia has been a democracy for 25 years, isn't this just absolving the Russian populace of any guilt or responsibility over their choice in government, or the actions of said government?
  - Eldt 8y ago
    How democratic exactly do you think their election process is?
    - expathacker 8y ago
      I do not know, do you? I'm guessing that neither of us have observed their election process in person, or are experts in the fairness of their, or any other democratic process. If you are, please school me, I'm a willing student. I am a US citizen, my birth nation has "elected" two presidents who failed to win the popular vote. 2% of my fellow citizens are unable to vote due to felony convictions. On top of this, the practice known as gerrymandering is essentially carte blanche for a state's ruling power to ensure continuous victories due to the complicated nature of an inconsistent federalist voting system.
      - meowface 8y ago
        The US's election system has many issues, but Russia's system (at the present moment) is a complete charade. At least with the US system, the rules and loopholes (as stupid as they are) are transparent, known, and understood ahead of time. There's no funny business behind the curtain. In Russia, elections are secretly manipulated by the state. The US is a sometimes-dysfunctional democracy, but Russia doesn't have a democracy at all.
        expathacker 8y ago
        Well, to be a little bit pedantic, the USA doesn't have a democracy either, we have a representative republic. You're speculating as to the state of Russia's democracy. Have you any specific proof of your allegations? I'm guessing your proof lays primarily with that which is published in the media, and the strong statements / research which come out of NATO and other anti-Russian establishments? I can't believe people would vote for Trump, but let's face it, they did because they believed his economy promises. I can't believe people voted for Putin, but Russia's economy has flourished under his reign, before him, people literally starved to death. I can't believe people vote for Erdogan, but Türkiye's economy is magnitudes stronger and fairer than it was before the AKP reign. Perhaps these democracies are working as intended, and people just cast short-sighted, greed-driven votes?
BurnGpuBurn 8y ago
Skripal didn't die, and his daughter also didn't die.
- meowface 8y ago
  No, but they intended him to die.
  - BurnGpuBurn 8y ago
    Not sure about intentions, but I consider it largely established that they were poisoned.
    - meowface 8y ago
      Considering the poison is extremely deadly, that other uninvolved UK citizens died and were injured as a result of exposure, that the poisoning was almost definitely ordered or approved by Putin, and that Putin and other government officials have spoken at length about killing traitors no matter where they go, it seems very likely they intended to kill him but failed. Just making him "really sick" doesn't make much sense, I think. Especially when you consider someone unrelated did die after being exposed.
      - BurnGpuBurn 8y ago
        Sure, somebody did something with a poison to get a couple of people sick and dead, for sure. Maybe the intention was to instill fear? To me that is just as plausible as a murder attempt. Also, you'd think that the Russian secret service is not as amateurish as to screw up a job that should be pretty easy for them. And, well, I'm just not very convinced of the "almost definitely ordered or approved by Putin" part, nor the "Putin and other government officials have spoken at length about killing traitors no matter where they go" piece. I have never seen evidence of the former, and honestly never saw or heard the latter either.

joezydeco 8y ago

It's also asynchronous. You could place poison on a doorknob and be thousands of miles away before the incident happens.