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The real irony here is that the Bitcoin/Ethereum miners are setting up hardware which runs software designed to maximize inefficiency for the sake of maintainin

by badge 8y ago

The real irony here is that the Bitcoin/Ethereum miners are setting up hardware which runs software designed to maximize inefficiency for the sake of maintaining a system designed for money laundering and tax evasion. Rather than use their equipment for work that's useful to humanity like Folding@Home or BOINC these mining operations are running what amounts to a foundry of space heaters trying to compute a lottery number in return for poker chips at a speculative casino.

paulddraper 8y ago
> work that's useful to humanity You could argue that having currency transactions based on distributed trust is useful to humanity.
- saalweachter 8y ago
  You could, but no one ever seems to do a good job of it.
  - MereKatMoves 8y ago
    if your viewpoint is doing a "good job"then what would you prefer? Bad job by a bunch of idiots. Some of them get paid by the system, most are high calibre and can milk the teat of corporate inquisitions. They absolutely know their subject material, so it comes down to opinion.... or Bad specs from a bunch of profiteering idiots? Why would anyone who was ahead of the curve ever give this stuff away? The path for Bitcoin and all other cryptos actually lies far away from the 'internet money" crossover dilemnas we have today. Big blocks of silicon heating snowdrifts is already out of date
  - a1369209993 8y ago
    There are a lot of things no one ever does a good job of, but that doesn't make them not useful, nor does it mean that they wouldn't by more useful if they did a better-but-still-not-good job of it. Bitcoin is at least doing a less-awful job than any previous attempt managed.
    - saalweachter 8y ago
      >> You could argue... > You could, but no one ever seems to do a good job of [making such an argument].
awt 8y ago
Money laundering and tax evasion: also known as failing to pay the men with guns for "protection." Stalin was also quite sure he knew what was useful for humanity.
ENGNR 8y ago
There’s a real need for a currency that’s actually backed by something real, given the amount of silly money sloshing around the system these days Linking a currency to wasted energy isn’t great, but what solution would you put forward? A few countries out there have tried to go back to gold or use their oil but it doesn’t end well for them
- Retric 8y ago
  > backed by something real Which is why USD backed up by the worlds strongest economy are used for vastly more international transactions than all cripto coins combined. Coins have nothing but belief in their value backing them up and are thus extremely unstable. At the end of the day people need to pay taxes and debts and that’s what gives nation states currency value. As long as the nation does not go on a long term printing spree things stabilize.
  - darawk 8y ago
    > Which is why USD backed up by the worlds strongest economy are used for vastly more international transactions than all cripto coins combined. In what sense do you believe USD to be 'backed' by the US economy?
    - Retric 8y ago
      Economic transactions create a tax debt which creates demand for currency to pay the government. Sell stock, car, or some Twinkies, even in a different currency, and they get a cut. Indirectly, messing with your currency risks economic harm creating a huge incentive for governments not to do that while things are going well.
      - darawk 8y ago
        > Economic transactions create a tax debt which creates demand for currency to pay the government. Sell stock, car, or some Twinkies, even in a different currency, and they get a cut. That is absolutely correct. But nowhere does it demand that you conduct these transactions in USD. USD ends up getting used because it's convenient, which is because people have to pay their tax debts at the end of the year. However, that is a problem that can be trivially solved by software now, especially as society becomes more and more cashless. As long as the US government accepts payment for taxes in USD, there will always be some demand for it. However, there is nothing actually stopping people from using other currencies for their normal transactions, which would substantially decrease demand for USD, and thereby reduce its value. There is no sense in which the US government 'backs' dollars, except insofar as they are incentivized not to do anything to actively destroy them.
nyolfen 8y ago
damn, truly fucked up that these people are using their skills and resources to seek profit
- joejerryronnie 8y ago
  So, sarcasm aside, it sounds like you support people using their skills and resources to seek profits mining cryptocurrencies. Do you also support real estate investors using their skills and resources to seek profit in rental properties?
bobcat9 8y ago
"designed for money laundering and tax evasion." That's reaching. Just because some people use it for that doesn't mean that's what it's designed for.
- replies_to_all 8y ago
  Above comment about laundering is so ignorant I can't believe it was made in 2018.
SilasX 8y ago
You could give your money to charity rather than spend it on making yourself happy. That doesn’t mean you’re evil or promoting inefficiency in any meaningful sense.
throwaway321312 8y ago
You realize your objections can also be said of the Finance industry as a whole.

by badge 8y ago

paulddraper 8y ago

> work that's useful to humanity You could argue that having currency transactions based on distributed trust is useful to humanity.

saalweachter 8y ago
You could, but no one ever seems to do a good job of it.
- MereKatMoves 8y ago
  if your viewpoint is doing a "good job"then what would you prefer? Bad job by a bunch of idiots. Some of them get paid by the system, most are high calibre and can milk the teat of corporate inquisitions. They absolutely know their subject material, so it comes down to opinion.... or Bad specs from a bunch of profiteering idiots? Why would anyone who was ahead of the curve ever give this stuff away? The path for Bitcoin and all other cryptos actually lies far away from the 'internet money" crossover dilemnas we have today. Big blocks of silicon heating snowdrifts is already out of date
- a1369209993 8y ago
  There are a lot of things no one ever does a good job of, but that doesn't make them not useful, nor does it mean that they wouldn't by more useful if they did a better-but-still-not-good job of it. Bitcoin is at least doing a less-awful job than any previous attempt managed.
  - saalweachter 8y ago
    >> You could argue... > You could, but no one ever seems to do a good job of [making such an argument].

awt 8y ago

Money laundering and tax evasion: also known as failing to pay the men with guns for "protection." Stalin was also quite sure he knew what was useful for humanity.

ENGNR 8y ago

There’s a real need for a currency that’s actually backed by something real, given the amount of silly money sloshing around the system these days Linking a currency to wasted energy isn’t great, but what solution would you put forward? A few countries out there have tried to go back to gold or use their oil but it doesn’t end well for them

Retric 8y ago
> backed by something real Which is why USD backed up by the worlds strongest economy are used for vastly more international transactions than all cripto coins combined. Coins have nothing but belief in their value backing them up and are thus extremely unstable. At the end of the day people need to pay taxes and debts and that’s what gives nation states currency value. As long as the nation does not go on a long term printing spree things stabilize.
- darawk 8y ago
  > Which is why USD backed up by the worlds strongest economy are used for vastly more international transactions than all cripto coins combined. In what sense do you believe USD to be 'backed' by the US economy?
  - Retric 8y ago
    Economic transactions create a tax debt which creates demand for currency to pay the government. Sell stock, car, or some Twinkies, even in a different currency, and they get a cut. Indirectly, messing with your currency risks economic harm creating a huge incentive for governments not to do that while things are going well.
    - darawk 8y ago
      > Economic transactions create a tax debt which creates demand for currency to pay the government. Sell stock, car, or some Twinkies, even in a different currency, and they get a cut. That is absolutely correct. But nowhere does it demand that you conduct these transactions in USD. USD ends up getting used because it's convenient, which is because people have to pay their tax debts at the end of the year. However, that is a problem that can be trivially solved by software now, especially as society becomes more and more cashless. As long as the US government accepts payment for taxes in USD, there will always be some demand for it. However, there is nothing actually stopping people from using other currencies for their normal transactions, which would substantially decrease demand for USD, and thereby reduce its value. There is no sense in which the US government 'backs' dollars, except insofar as they are incentivized not to do anything to actively destroy them.

nyolfen 8y ago

damn, truly fucked up that these people are using their skills and resources to seek profit

joejerryronnie 8y ago
So, sarcasm aside, it sounds like you support people using their skills and resources to seek profits mining cryptocurrencies. Do you also support real estate investors using their skills and resources to seek profit in rental properties?

bobcat9 8y ago

"designed for money laundering and tax evasion." That's reaching. Just because some people use it for that doesn't mean that's what it's designed for.

replies_to_all 8y ago
Above comment about laundering is so ignorant I can't believe it was made in 2018.

SilasX 8y ago

You could give your money to charity rather than spend it on making yourself happy. That doesn’t mean you’re evil or promoting inefficiency in any meaningful sense.

throwaway321312 8y ago

You realize your objections can also be said of the Finance industry as a whole.