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Hm, I don't get it. There is maybe a use case for VR to add immersion for games (like space sims or racing games), but why would I want to have a device on my

Hm, I don't get it. There is maybe a use case for VR to add immersion for games (like space sims or racing games), but why would I want to have a device on my head to look at a 2D canvas? I mean it's a nice tech demo, but it seems like the 2000ish hype around these 3D-cube window managers that ... looked cool, but otherwise don't add anything to your workflow. Do people really want to work (e.g. develop) with a VR in a 3D environment?

Vinnl 8y ago
I'm not sure if it's just about the 2D canvas. With WebXR (I think - I'm not too up-to-date on the field), websites can also offer VR examples. You will need a browser to discover them, but they can still be immersive - you just also need a 2D canvas for regular websites that get you there.
- protomikron 8y ago
  > [...] websites can also offer VR examples. But for what exactly (despite ... porn)? Like I said I get the use-case for games and I also think there is potential for AR - but pure VR for the web? If it were that important to have 3D to represent information on the web, we would have a lot more 3D websites (without VR) already - which is technically possible for a long time.
  - beaconstudios 8y ago
    if you think of the web as a delivery vector for apps, it makes sense. Visiting a URL to play a VR game or initiate a VR experience makes sense and complies well with the original intent of URLs. Imagine launching (e.g.) minecraft.net and instead of a website, you get dropped into a demo version of the game with a contextual "frame" of information, links, and so on. Or a virtual showroom for a kitchen company where you can explore a 3d model of the kitchen, interact with the furnishings, and select new colours or models. Putting 3d content on a screen sucks in the same way that putting a 2d plane in 3d does. Making 3d content explorable in 3d makes a lot more sense.
  - nine_k 8y ago
    Shopping?
  - Vinnl 8y ago
    Well... Everything that you'd use a regular VR app for, I guess. It's not quite clear yet what the most important use cases for VR will be, but Mozilla appears to be betting big on providing all API's that might be required to make the web just as capable of providing VR experiences as regular apps (i.e. what ideally would have happened with web apps in the first place), and for that, they need a VR browser. In other words, you'd be able to play a VR game without needing to install anything, by simply visiting a Web VR app, and that app would work on all VR platforms that run VR browsers like Firefox Reality.
executesorder66 8y ago
> but why would I want to have a device on my head to look at a 2D canvas Because instead of having a, say, 24 inch screen, I can now have a "screen" the same size (or larger) as my field of vision.
- protomikron 8y ago
  That is certainly true, but you can still only focus on a "window" that is similar in size to your 24 inch screen (and even currently I guess the focus - the area where you read - is actually quite smaller than the screen size). True, you have more screen real estate for the "Alt-Tab" aspect of window selection, but I am not sure that is such a leap.
  - jaequery 8y ago
    have you browsed the web in vr before? its certainly like being in front of an imax movie theatre to me. i been using oculus go btw.
jaegerpicker 8y ago
VR offers a number of advantages for productivity. As many virtual desktops as you want of any size. New ways to model data and manipulate it, think 3D graphs. Virtual telepresence for meetings. Those are just the ones off the top of my head.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
larsberg 8y ago
One of the biggest things we've found that people like to do in VR is private viewing. They'll collect links of videos all day and then come home to watch them on a "big screen" but don't have a laptop or TV that supports miracast, so use a VR headset. Or they like to watch twitch streamers or their favorite movie providers or just bounce around searching content. As the hardware becomes more mature, we'll support more use cases, but we wanted to enable some compelling early use cases (especially voice search) and learn from users as soon as we could.
- martinald 8y ago
  A $15 chromecast can easily enable this? I'm surprised this is an actual use case.
  - johntash 8y ago
    A $15 chromecast + a TV or monitor that someone may not have/want for whatever reason. A chromecast wouldn't be private either if you have other people in your household.
- IshKebab 8y ago
  VR headsets are pretty awful at watching traditional 2D content though. And yeah, who buys an entire VR headsets because the don't have an HDMI cable or a Chromecast? This sounds implausible.
modzu 8y ago
porn
Ajedi32 8y ago
The advantage of this particular app is that it works on standalone VR headsets, which otherwise don't have access to a decent web browser. Also integrates with Web VR content so you can find and play web-based VR games and videos without taking off the headset. Other than that though I agree with you; apart from a few niche use-cases, right now this isn't really much better than just using the browser on your phone. Longer-term though, VR (and eventually AR) have the potential to offer a number of significant productivity advantages over desktop displays. Unlimited screen real-estate, the ability to organize your workspace spatially, better interaction with 3D models and data. It's also possible that there's a whole new set of UI paradigms that we haven't discovered yet which will be enabled by VR/AR interfaces. If we were designing user interfaces from scratch with the ability to project images anywhere in 3D space, what would those interfaces ultimately look like? Are 2D interfaces really the most efficient? Or did we just arrive at that solution as the result of the limitations of current technology?
- flyinglizard 8y ago
  I don’t think unlimited screen estate is really a thing; you can get yourself multiple 4K 50+ TVs for less than the price of a top line iPhone, but such an environment is not ergonomic at all. It’s much easier to switch desktops than to move your head and body around. I think planar screens will rule productivity for the foreseeable future.
  - cheeko1234 8y ago
    Even regular monitor sized screens are better in VR since you can move it wherever you like. The resolution is the only reason I don't do it more.
  - Ajedi32 8y ago
    The advantage of having lots of monitors is that it lets you organize your workspace spatially, rather than having to constantly deal with the cognitive load of manual window management. Tilting my head a few degrees to look at my email client which is _always_ in the same place on my right monitor is significantly faster and more intuitive than having to grab my mouse and click the email icon on the taskbar, or Alt+Tab through a stack of recent programs until I find my email client among them. There are practical limits, sure. Most people are not going to want to turn their entire body around 180-degrees just to look at another window. Within those limits though I find that more space is generally better.
SideburnsOfDoom 8y ago
> but why would I want to have a device on my head to look at a 2D canvas? Office managers are sooner or later going to find one VR headset cheaper than 2 or 3 large screens for tech work. At that point, you will be given a headset instead.
- majewsky 8y ago
  The cost of a few monitors every few years is completely negligible relative to the salary of the person sitiing in front of it.
  - isaiahg 8y ago
    I think the point here is the availability of unlimited screen space. Everywhere you look can be a monitor. Combined with the potential increase in productivity, and the use of VR offices for remote work, I can see a business market developing for this. I don't think we're ready to say monitors will go away. But I think all the pieces are there for VR headsets to be adopted by some companies once the resolution gets good enough.
    - protomikron 8y ago
      > Everywhere you look can be a monitor. But what's the advantage of that? You still can only focus on one monitor/window? The only difference is that you switch focus/windows via head tilting instead of keyboard/mouse, so I don't really see what that buys you.
      - spurgu 8y ago
        No one looking over your shoulder?
  - SideburnsOfDoom 8y ago
    So? Someone is still going to do the math, and if it comes up positive, it will happen.
dragonwriter 8y ago
> There is maybe a use case for VR to add immersion for games (like space sims or racing games), but why would I want to have a device on my head to look at a 2D canvas? Virtual big screen (IIRC, not too many years ago headsets were sold for exactly that purpose, without even VR capability; they were basically like modern VR headsets burn without motion tracking.)
xtrimsky1234 8y ago
Airplanes or portable computers. Laptops aren't perfect, you need to take them everywhere, the screen is much smaller, and they are expensive. Imagine a world where you only need a smartphone and a headset. You are traveling by airplane? You take out your headset, and you have a huge screen in front of you to work with. I think VR/AR could replace the need of laptops in maybe 10 years. Firefox is stepping in the right direction for it. Firefox combined with AWS Cloud9, and you can have a programming machine in VR.

Vinnl 8y ago

I'm not sure if it's just about the 2D canvas. With WebXR (I think - I'm not too up-to-date on the field), websites can also offer VR examples. You will need a browser to discover them, but they can still be immersive - you just also need a 2D canvas for regular websites that get you there.

protomikron 8y ago
> [...] websites can also offer VR examples. But for what exactly (despite ... porn)? Like I said I get the use-case for games and I also think there is potential for AR - but pure VR for the web? If it were that important to have 3D to represent information on the web, we would have a lot more 3D websites (without VR) already - which is technically possible for a long time.
- beaconstudios 8y ago
  if you think of the web as a delivery vector for apps, it makes sense. Visiting a URL to play a VR game or initiate a VR experience makes sense and complies well with the original intent of URLs. Imagine launching (e.g.) minecraft.net and instead of a website, you get dropped into a demo version of the game with a contextual "frame" of information, links, and so on. Or a virtual showroom for a kitchen company where you can explore a 3d model of the kitchen, interact with the furnishings, and select new colours or models. Putting 3d content on a screen sucks in the same way that putting a 2d plane in 3d does. Making 3d content explorable in 3d makes a lot more sense.
- nine_k 8y ago
  Shopping?
- Vinnl 8y ago
  Well... Everything that you'd use a regular VR app for, I guess. It's not quite clear yet what the most important use cases for VR will be, but Mozilla appears to be betting big on providing all API's that might be required to make the web just as capable of providing VR experiences as regular apps (i.e. what ideally would have happened with web apps in the first place), and for that, they need a VR browser. In other words, you'd be able to play a VR game without needing to install anything, by simply visiting a Web VR app, and that app would work on all VR platforms that run VR browsers like Firefox Reality.

executesorder66 8y ago

> but why would I want to have a device on my head to look at a 2D canvas Because instead of having a, say, 24 inch screen, I can now have a "screen" the same size (or larger) as my field of vision.

protomikron 8y ago
That is certainly true, but you can still only focus on a "window" that is similar in size to your 24 inch screen (and even currently I guess the focus - the area where you read - is actually quite smaller than the screen size). True, you have more screen real estate for the "Alt-Tab" aspect of window selection, but I am not sure that is such a leap.
- jaequery 8y ago
  have you browsed the web in vr before? its certainly like being in front of an imax movie theatre to me. i been using oculus go btw.

jaegerpicker 8y ago

VR offers a number of advantages for productivity. As many virtual desktops as you want of any size. New ways to model data and manipulate it, think 3D graphs. Virtual telepresence for meetings. Those are just the ones off the top of my head.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

larsberg 8y ago

One of the biggest things we've found that people like to do in VR is private viewing. They'll collect links of videos all day and then come home to watch them on a "big screen" but don't have a laptop or TV that supports miracast, so use a VR headset. Or they like to watch twitch streamers or their favorite movie providers or just bounce around searching content. As the hardware becomes more mature, we'll support more use cases, but we wanted to enable some compelling early use cases (especially voice search) and learn from users as soon as we could.

martinald 8y ago
A $15 chromecast can easily enable this? I'm surprised this is an actual use case.
- johntash 8y ago
  A $15 chromecast + a TV or monitor that someone may not have/want for whatever reason. A chromecast wouldn't be private either if you have other people in your household.
IshKebab 8y ago
VR headsets are pretty awful at watching traditional 2D content though. And yeah, who buys an entire VR headsets because the don't have an HDMI cable or a Chromecast? This sounds implausible.

modzu 8y ago

porn

Ajedi32 8y ago

The advantage of this particular app is that it works on standalone VR headsets, which otherwise don't have access to a decent web browser. Also integrates with Web VR content so you can find and play web-based VR games and videos without taking off the headset. Other than that though I agree with you; apart from a few niche use-cases, right now this isn't really much better than just using the browser on your phone. Longer-term though, VR (and eventually AR) have the potential to offer a number of significant productivity advantages over desktop displays. Unlimited screen real-estate, the ability to organize your workspace spatially, better interaction with 3D models and data. It's also possible that there's a whole new set of UI paradigms that we haven't discovered yet which will be enabled by VR/AR interfaces. If we were designing user interfaces from scratch with the ability to project images anywhere in 3D space, what would those interfaces ultimately look like? Are 2D interfaces really the most efficient? Or did we just arrive at that solution as the result of the limitations of current technology?

flyinglizard 8y ago
I don’t think unlimited screen estate is really a thing; you can get yourself multiple 4K 50+ TVs for less than the price of a top line iPhone, but such an environment is not ergonomic at all. It’s much easier to switch desktops than to move your head and body around. I think planar screens will rule productivity for the foreseeable future.
- cheeko1234 8y ago
  Even regular monitor sized screens are better in VR since you can move it wherever you like. The resolution is the only reason I don't do it more.
- Ajedi32 8y ago
  The advantage of having lots of monitors is that it lets you organize your workspace spatially, rather than having to constantly deal with the cognitive load of manual window management. Tilting my head a few degrees to look at my email client which is _always_ in the same place on my right monitor is significantly faster and more intuitive than having to grab my mouse and click the email icon on the taskbar, or Alt+Tab through a stack of recent programs until I find my email client among them. There are practical limits, sure. Most people are not going to want to turn their entire body around 180-degrees just to look at another window. Within those limits though I find that more space is generally better.

SideburnsOfDoom 8y ago

> but why would I want to have a device on my head to look at a 2D canvas? Office managers are sooner or later going to find one VR headset cheaper than 2 or 3 large screens for tech work. At that point, you will be given a headset instead.

majewsky 8y ago
The cost of a few monitors every few years is completely negligible relative to the salary of the person sitiing in front of it.
- isaiahg 8y ago
  I think the point here is the availability of unlimited screen space. Everywhere you look can be a monitor. Combined with the potential increase in productivity, and the use of VR offices for remote work, I can see a business market developing for this. I don't think we're ready to say monitors will go away. But I think all the pieces are there for VR headsets to be adopted by some companies once the resolution gets good enough.
  - protomikron 8y ago
    > Everywhere you look can be a monitor. But what's the advantage of that? You still can only focus on one monitor/window? The only difference is that you switch focus/windows via head tilting instead of keyboard/mouse, so I don't really see what that buys you.
    - spurgu 8y ago
      No one looking over your shoulder?
- SideburnsOfDoom 8y ago
  So? Someone is still going to do the math, and if it comes up positive, it will happen.

dragonwriter 8y ago

> There is maybe a use case for VR to add immersion for games (like space sims or racing games), but why would I want to have a device on my head to look at a 2D canvas? Virtual big screen (IIRC, not too many years ago headsets were sold for exactly that purpose, without even VR capability; they were basically like modern VR headsets burn without motion tracking.)

xtrimsky1234 8y ago

Airplanes or portable computers. Laptops aren't perfect, you need to take them everywhere, the screen is much smaller, and they are expensive. Imagine a world where you only need a smartphone and a headset. You are traveling by airplane? You take out your headset, and you have a huge screen in front of you to work with. I think VR/AR could replace the need of laptops in maybe 10 years. Firefox is stepping in the right direction for it. Firefox combined with AWS Cloud9, and you can have a programming machine in VR.