4 ms·

Yes in this case, the publishers shot themselves on the head. This is so interesting; if this book wins, it will be a major banner that Amazon empowers authors.

Yes in this case, the publishers shot themselves on the head. This is so interesting; if this book wins, it will be a major banner that Amazon empowers authors. I have to say that I can not find myself sympathetic to the publishers' argument here at all.

killjoywashere 8y ago
I'm sure the trees which are not paper, due to the author's misfortune of finding no other publisher, are applauding the novel's inclusion.
- ghaff 8y ago
  Amazon Createspace lets you sell both paper and digital. (In fact, to be precise, selling on Kindle is quasi-independent of selling PoD from Createspace.) I've actually published a print copy of a book through Createspace without a Kindle version because the non-DRM PDF digital version is free from my website.
  - brewdad 8y ago
    Are the paper books "print on demand" or is there an initial print run like a publishing house would have? Still a good way to prevent waste if the only copies actually printed are already sold.
    - ghaff 8y ago
      No idea. I assume it's a decision that Amazon makes based on the numbers. They probably start with on-demand and, if a book is actually selling a lot of copies, they may do a larger print run at a lower unit cost. In any case, it's transparent to the author in my experience.
    - TomVDB 8y ago
      AFAIK they are printed on demand when the volumes are low. It's incredibly easy to publish (you're essentially uploading a .pdf file). I assume that tons of books only sell a handful of copies. E.g. the only copies of a book that was written by a family member where those that he bought himself.
    - stubish 8y ago
      Publishing houses also do print on demand, as it is cheaper for smaller runs and there is less upfront investment. eg. the first 5000 copies come from a POD supplier, and if things go well they do the sums and consider doing a run of 10-20k with a traditional print setup. On your bookshelf, chances are the 'trade paperback' sized books from the last several years came out of a POD printer (a glorified laser printer, often but not always with integrated cover and binding), and the smaller paperbacks from a traditional press. The POD books still get ordered in batches though, because it is cheaper to order 5000 copies instead of ordering a single copy 5000 times. Or lease a device from Xerox. Single copy POD is really only done through Create Space and their competitors, where customers order them directly from the printer.
- nradov 8y ago
  Most paper is made from trees grown specifically for that purpose. Avoiding paper books to save trees now makes about as much sense as eating less bread to save wheat plants. But paper manufacturing does produce toxic waste, so e-books are probably better from that standpoint.
greenshackle2 8y ago
It's the bookstore syndicate making an argument here, not the publishers. The bookstores should be blaming the publishers for refusing to pick up this book. Instead they are blaming Amazon, and the Renaudot contest for considering this book. Their self-interest is completely transparent, the Renaudot winner will have good sales, they don't want a book that they won't sell to win. I read the press release in French, they are warning the Renaudot prize jury that they could be hurting the author by depriving him of having his book sold in bookstores. The argument is nonsensical.
- bunderbunder 8y ago
  The self-interest I can understand. The trying to project their self-interest onto others, though, is a really bad look. "Chers jurés, vous êtes écrivains." (Dear jurors, you are writers.) Indeed they are. Why on earth would they want to punish one of their own for doing what he needed to do to get his book published, after first being stonewalled by the publishers? The SLF is asking the hand that feeds it to bite itself.
  - greenshackle2 8y ago
    Well, they are trying to avoid biting the other hand that feeds them, the traditional publishers. They are used to living in a world where publishers hold the power over authors. Alienating a few authors matters much less than alienating a few publishers. The rise of self-publishing, enabled by Amazon and the likes, would be to some extent a reversal of the existing power dynamics. But asking authors to join them in opposing this reversal of power is absurd, when it is clearly to authors' advantage, as we can see with Koskas. They can't expect authors to enjoy being at the mercy of publishers.
- SilasX 8y ago
  Exactly. You pass on good writers/startups/movie pitches, you eat crow when the public turns out to like them. What’s unfair about that? If publishers use a bad filter, they have only themselves to blame when the writer finds a channel that appreciates them.
- 8y ago
wiz21c 8y ago
How much money will the author make by selling through amazon or through the book stores (including publisher's margin) ?

killjoywashere 8y ago

I'm sure the trees which are not paper, due to the author's misfortune of finding no other publisher, are applauding the novel's inclusion.

ghaff 8y ago
Amazon Createspace lets you sell both paper and digital. (In fact, to be precise, selling on Kindle is quasi-independent of selling PoD from Createspace.) I've actually published a print copy of a book through Createspace without a Kindle version because the non-DRM PDF digital version is free from my website.
- brewdad 8y ago
  Are the paper books "print on demand" or is there an initial print run like a publishing house would have? Still a good way to prevent waste if the only copies actually printed are already sold.
  - ghaff 8y ago
    No idea. I assume it's a decision that Amazon makes based on the numbers. They probably start with on-demand and, if a book is actually selling a lot of copies, they may do a larger print run at a lower unit cost. In any case, it's transparent to the author in my experience.
  - TomVDB 8y ago
    AFAIK they are printed on demand when the volumes are low. It's incredibly easy to publish (you're essentially uploading a .pdf file). I assume that tons of books only sell a handful of copies. E.g. the only copies of a book that was written by a family member where those that he bought himself.
  - stubish 8y ago
    Publishing houses also do print on demand, as it is cheaper for smaller runs and there is less upfront investment. eg. the first 5000 copies come from a POD supplier, and if things go well they do the sums and consider doing a run of 10-20k with a traditional print setup. On your bookshelf, chances are the 'trade paperback' sized books from the last several years came out of a POD printer (a glorified laser printer, often but not always with integrated cover and binding), and the smaller paperbacks from a traditional press. The POD books still get ordered in batches though, because it is cheaper to order 5000 copies instead of ordering a single copy 5000 times. Or lease a device from Xerox. Single copy POD is really only done through Create Space and their competitors, where customers order them directly from the printer.
nradov 8y ago
Most paper is made from trees grown specifically for that purpose. Avoiding paper books to save trees now makes about as much sense as eating less bread to save wheat plants. But paper manufacturing does produce toxic waste, so e-books are probably better from that standpoint.

greenshackle2 8y ago

It's the bookstore syndicate making an argument here, not the publishers. The bookstores should be blaming the publishers for refusing to pick up this book. Instead they are blaming Amazon, and the Renaudot contest for considering this book. Their self-interest is completely transparent, the Renaudot winner will have good sales, they don't want a book that they won't sell to win. I read the press release in French, they are warning the Renaudot prize jury that they could be hurting the author by depriving him of having his book sold in bookstores. The argument is nonsensical.

bunderbunder 8y ago
The self-interest I can understand. The trying to project their self-interest onto others, though, is a really bad look. "Chers jurés, vous êtes écrivains." (Dear jurors, you are writers.) Indeed they are. Why on earth would they want to punish one of their own for doing what he needed to do to get his book published, after first being stonewalled by the publishers? The SLF is asking the hand that feeds it to bite itself.
- greenshackle2 8y ago
  Well, they are trying to avoid biting the other hand that feeds them, the traditional publishers. They are used to living in a world where publishers hold the power over authors. Alienating a few authors matters much less than alienating a few publishers. The rise of self-publishing, enabled by Amazon and the likes, would be to some extent a reversal of the existing power dynamics. But asking authors to join them in opposing this reversal of power is absurd, when it is clearly to authors' advantage, as we can see with Koskas. They can't expect authors to enjoy being at the mercy of publishers.
SilasX 8y ago
Exactly. You pass on good writers/startups/movie pitches, you eat crow when the public turns out to like them. What’s unfair about that? If publishers use a bad filter, they have only themselves to blame when the writer finds a channel that appreciates them.
8y ago

wiz21c 8y ago

How much money will the author make by selling through amazon or through the book stores (including publisher's margin) ?