7 ms·

I was casually in favour of this; I recently mentioned it to my mother in passing, and she pointed out that the UK had trialled this in 1968-1971. She was (surp

I was casually in favour of this; I recently mentioned it to my mother in passing, and she pointed out that the UK had trialled this in 1968-1971. She was (surprisingly to me) immediately opposed to it - living in Scotland, she recalled that it was basically dark until 10am, and resulted in a bunch of upheaval as children were no longer able to travel safely to school by themselves, among other things.

another-cuppa 8y ago
That makes no sense. The clocks change in the summer, not the winter, and in summer Scotland sees about 20 hours of sunlight.
- gizmo385 8y ago
  Clocks change twice a year, not once a year.
  - another-cuppa 8y ago
    Huh? How could they change once a year? The point is winter time is GMT and summer time is the change. The UK did remain on BST once, but that was during the war (interestingly it also went to double summer time in the summer).
  - IshKebab 8y ago
    He means the clocks are offset in the summer and not the winter. If we stop changing the clocks and just stick on GMT all year it won't affect anything in winter.
  - gtspotscom 8y ago
    Technically correct. But it's more like "clocks change once a year and then that change is reverted"
- arankine 8y ago
  We had 4 hours of night in the highlands and that was hard to sleep through.
- matthewmacleod 8y ago
  Sure, but in the case I was talking about the UK switched to BST (i.e. GMT+1) year-round. This has the effect of making it darker on winter mornings.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
raverbashing 8y ago
Seems like they picked summer time, not winter time as the default
renjimen 8y ago
They could push the school start time back. It would be better for kids everywhere, not just Scotland.
- yegle 8y ago
  I figure it will not be easy to change the school start time, since parents are also need to change behavior with the school start time change. In the end maybe this will be easier to just have a consistent schedule to change the school start time. In the end we invent DST again.
  - golangnews 8y ago
    It really would not be difficult to move school later - school hours are already out of sync with 9-5 of 9-6 or the other hours parents work, if anything it’d be welcome.
    - de_Selby 8y ago
      Of course it would. School starts at roughly the same time as normal work hours. Most schools start a little before here to allow parents get to work after dropping off their kids. You couldn't just change school hours in isolation without causing a lot of disruption.
      - golangnews 8y ago
        School hours are 9-3:20 where I live, so they are nowhere near in line with working hours as you need time to get to work and not many jobs finish that early. Most schools run breakfast clubs and after school clubs as a result.
    - skinnymuch 8y ago
      School began at 7:50 am for us. So that time worked well for parents and 9-5 sort of times. It gave enough room for 8-4 or 8-5 parents and long commute parents. Or parents who want to drop off and come back home first. If you make the school start time 9 am as well, if a parent helps their kid get ready and/or has to be around until the kid leaves for the bus and/or has to drop them off, they wouldn’t be able to unless their commute is short. I don’t think school times can be pushed much. Maybe 30 min max without seriously disrupting parent’s schedules if that’s a concern.
IshKebab 8y ago
Just open schools later in winter then. Also that's really just due to the choice of time zone, not how clocks are changed in the summer.
- bonzini 8y ago
  So if everything will switch to a later time in winter, it's the same effect as moving clocks forward in the summer? It's not so easy to start school later, because the parents might have fixed entry/exit times at work. DST sucks but it has the advantage that everything synchronizes on when to switch.
- SmellyGeekBoy 8y ago
  Don't change the clocks, just do everything an hour later! Seems like the worst of both worlds.
  - hannasanarion 8y ago
    Why? If you want to do some particular thing during sunlight, schedule it that way yourself, don't force everyone else to change our clocks and lose an hour of sleep for your convenience
de_Selby 8y ago
I feel the same way, the further north you are the bigger a factor it becomes. I can see issues with icy roads on winter mornings too. Daylight savings makes sense, just not everywhere. The change is happening now though. Even though it would lead to darker mornings I'd still support adopting summer time here in Ireland. Dark evenings when you get home from work are just too depressing.
- jedberg 8y ago
  > I feel the same way, the further north you are the bigger a factor it becomes. On the other hand, the further north you go, the more they already deal with this. DST or not, kids in Alaska go to school in the dark for a good part of winter. Somehow they survive.
baxtr 8y ago
It depends. If they keep wintertime, that won’t happen
krupan 8y ago
According to a quick internet search, Scotland has about 8 hours of sunlight in the winter and about 18 hours in the summer. You'd have to shift by about 4 hours to keep sunrise at the same time in both mid winter and mid summer. I'm guessing that's not what they were doing and that right around December 21st the kids are going to school in the dark no matter what, or else the sun was coming up at 3 am in the summer. Either way, a one hour shift wasn't making that big of a difference.
- matthewmacleod 8y ago
  An hour can make a big difference! Inverness gets about 6:30 daylight during the winter, with sunrise at about 9:00 and sunset around 3:30. Shifting to year-round summer time would move sunrise to 10:00; an hour can be the difference between "I can see things" twilight and "It's basically night". I'm not really that bothered myself, having worked weird hours for a long time. But I can definitely see problems it could cause.
jayflux 8y ago
The idea of a trial was again brought up in 2010 - 2012, it was rejected due to the same reasons, I think Scotland weren’t happy about it. https://services.parliament.uk/bills/2010-12/daylightsaving.html https://services.parliament.uk/bills/2010-12/daylightsaving....
henrikschroder 8y ago
> living in Scotland, she recalled that it was basically dark until 10am, and resulted in a bunch of upheaval as children were no longer able to travel safely to school by themselves Meanwhile, in Scandinavia, this is the reality of November, December and January for everyone. Entire countries manage to go to school and work when it's dark outside...

another-cuppa 8y ago

That makes no sense. The clocks change in the summer, not the winter, and in summer Scotland sees about 20 hours of sunlight.

gizmo385 8y ago
Clocks change twice a year, not once a year.
- another-cuppa 8y ago
  Huh? How could they change once a year? The point is winter time is GMT and summer time is the change. The UK did remain on BST once, but that was during the war (interestingly it also went to double summer time in the summer).
- IshKebab 8y ago
  He means the clocks are offset in the summer and not the winter. If we stop changing the clocks and just stick on GMT all year it won't affect anything in winter.
- gtspotscom 8y ago
  Technically correct. But it's more like "clocks change once a year and then that change is reverted"
arankine 8y ago
We had 4 hours of night in the highlands and that was hard to sleep through.
matthewmacleod 8y ago
Sure, but in the case I was talking about the UK switched to BST (i.e. GMT+1) year-round. This has the effect of making it darker on winter mornings.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

raverbashing 8y ago

Seems like they picked summer time, not winter time as the default

renjimen 8y ago

They could push the school start time back. It would be better for kids everywhere, not just Scotland.

yegle 8y ago
I figure it will not be easy to change the school start time, since parents are also need to change behavior with the school start time change. In the end maybe this will be easier to just have a consistent schedule to change the school start time. In the end we invent DST again.
- golangnews 8y ago
  It really would not be difficult to move school later - school hours are already out of sync with 9-5 of 9-6 or the other hours parents work, if anything it’d be welcome.
  - de_Selby 8y ago
    Of course it would. School starts at roughly the same time as normal work hours. Most schools start a little before here to allow parents get to work after dropping off their kids. You couldn't just change school hours in isolation without causing a lot of disruption.
    - golangnews 8y ago
      School hours are 9-3:20 where I live, so they are nowhere near in line with working hours as you need time to get to work and not many jobs finish that early. Most schools run breakfast clubs and after school clubs as a result.
  - skinnymuch 8y ago
    School began at 7:50 am for us. So that time worked well for parents and 9-5 sort of times. It gave enough room for 8-4 or 8-5 parents and long commute parents. Or parents who want to drop off and come back home first. If you make the school start time 9 am as well, if a parent helps their kid get ready and/or has to be around until the kid leaves for the bus and/or has to drop them off, they wouldn’t be able to unless their commute is short. I don’t think school times can be pushed much. Maybe 30 min max without seriously disrupting parent’s schedules if that’s a concern.

IshKebab 8y ago

Just open schools later in winter then. Also that's really just due to the choice of time zone, not how clocks are changed in the summer.

bonzini 8y ago
So if everything will switch to a later time in winter, it's the same effect as moving clocks forward in the summer? It's not so easy to start school later, because the parents might have fixed entry/exit times at work. DST sucks but it has the advantage that everything synchronizes on when to switch.
SmellyGeekBoy 8y ago
Don't change the clocks, just do everything an hour later! Seems like the worst of both worlds.
- hannasanarion 8y ago
  Why? If you want to do some particular thing during sunlight, schedule it that way yourself, don't force everyone else to change our clocks and lose an hour of sleep for your convenience

de_Selby 8y ago

I feel the same way, the further north you are the bigger a factor it becomes. I can see issues with icy roads on winter mornings too. Daylight savings makes sense, just not everywhere. The change is happening now though. Even though it would lead to darker mornings I'd still support adopting summer time here in Ireland. Dark evenings when you get home from work are just too depressing.

jedberg 8y ago
> I feel the same way, the further north you are the bigger a factor it becomes. On the other hand, the further north you go, the more they already deal with this. DST or not, kids in Alaska go to school in the dark for a good part of winter. Somehow they survive.

baxtr 8y ago

It depends. If they keep wintertime, that won’t happen

krupan 8y ago

According to a quick internet search, Scotland has about 8 hours of sunlight in the winter and about 18 hours in the summer. You'd have to shift by about 4 hours to keep sunrise at the same time in both mid winter and mid summer. I'm guessing that's not what they were doing and that right around December 21st the kids are going to school in the dark no matter what, or else the sun was coming up at 3 am in the summer. Either way, a one hour shift wasn't making that big of a difference.

matthewmacleod 8y ago
An hour can make a big difference! Inverness gets about 6:30 daylight during the winter, with sunrise at about 9:00 and sunset around 3:30. Shifting to year-round summer time would move sunrise to 10:00; an hour can be the difference between "I can see things" twilight and "It's basically night". I'm not really that bothered myself, having worked weird hours for a long time. But I can definitely see problems it could cause.

jayflux 8y ago

The idea of a trial was again brought up in 2010 - 2012, it was rejected due to the same reasons, I think Scotland weren’t happy about it. https://services.parliament.uk/bills/2010-12/daylightsaving.html https://services.parliament.uk/bills/2010-12/daylightsaving....

henrikschroder 8y ago

> living in Scotland, she recalled that it was basically dark until 10am, and resulted in a bunch of upheaval as children were no longer able to travel safely to school by themselves Meanwhile, in Scandinavia, this is the reality of November, December and January for everyone. Entire countries manage to go to school and work when it's dark outside...