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I'm still on iOS 10 on my iPhone SE. Why should I upgrade? Even if there was a convincing reason to, I'm afraid performance will tank, as it often does on olde

I'm still on iOS 10 on my iPhone SE. Why should I upgrade? Even if there was a convincing reason to, I'm afraid performance will tank, as it often does on older iPhones getting their last update.

adpirz 8y ago
"iOS 12 on the iPhone 5S, iPhone 6 Plus, and iPad Mini 2: It’s actually faster!" https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2018/09/ios-12-on-the-iphone-5s-iphone-6-plus-and-ipad-mini-2-its-actually-faster/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2018/09/ios-12-on-the-iphone...
- ivraatiems 8y ago
  This is persuasive, but I wonder why they didn't test the SE. Maybe because the 5S is older but quite similar/appeals to the same market?
  - edbaskerville 8y ago
    The SE is basically a 6 in the 5S form factor.
    - xuki 8y ago
      6s
    - masklinn 8y ago
      It has the 6S's internal hardware, not the 6's. So it's way more powerful than the 6, let alone the 5S.
      - ahakki 8y ago
        There are actually two phones called iphone se. It was updated from iphone6 hardware to iphone6s hardware partway through it’s life cycle withou a change to the name. The updated SE is also availible in rose gold while the original was not.
        deergomoo 8y ago
        That is not true at all. There’s only ever been one SE and it was always based on the 6S hardware. The closest thing to a refresh was a mid-cycle bump to the base storage.
        wlesieutre 8y ago
        The iPhone SE launched with 6S internals and has never been changed except for a storage bump and a price drop.
- earenndil 8y ago
  Faster than ios 11. Unclear if it's faster than ios 10.
sawmurai 8y ago
What about security updates?
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
artimaeis 8y ago
Security updates and significant speed improvements are sufficient reason to upgrade, I'd think. Siri Shortcuts is also a pretty incredible feature if you're a power-user.
- ivraatiems 8y ago
  Security updates are probably the most compelling reason. I'm extremely skeptical of claimed speed improvements. Are there third party benchmarks? Are these improvements over iOS 11, or iOS 10? iOS 11 was an absolute horror show from that and many other aspects.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - saagarjha 8y ago
    Over iOS 11. And I encourage you try try iOS 12; I've been using it for three months and it's been really fast in my experience.
  - jug 8y ago
    There were issues with the scheduler in the kernel code in iOS 11 that IIRC had lingered since iOS 7. The difference can be pretty remarkable. Basically iOS can ramp up resources where they are needed much more quickly, so one might say it’s using the CPU more efficiently. It eliminates a lot of stuttering for me. I was worried it might come at the cost of battery life but I haven’t seen many differences there besides some iteration during the beta.
  - mattkevan 8y ago
    Been using the beta on my 6S for the last month or so and the speed increase is noticable. The keyboard especially feels faster and more fluid. They’re definitely wanting to shut down the ‘apple slowed down my device!!1’ narrative with this one.
  - rimliu 8y ago
    https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2018/09/ios-12-on-the-iphone-5s-iphone-6-plus-and-ipad-mini-2-its-actually-faster/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2018/09/ios-12-on-the-iphone...
eridius 8y ago
One of the main focuses of iOS 12 was improving performance across the board, especially for older phones.
- FabHK 8y ago
  And I'm on iOS 11 on the SE, and it works just fine. So 12 should be ok.
  - kmundnic 8y ago
    I'm using iOS 11 on an almost 4 years old iPhone 6, and it works fine for me too.
tcfunk 8y ago
Yeah I'm hoping 12 delivers on the performance improvements it is promising. iOS 11 all but bricked my 6 plus.
- donovanh 8y ago
  Been using it for months on my 6 and it’s great
- rashkov 8y ago
  Also had a bad experience on my 6 Plus, but then I did a factory reset of the phone and it has been performing pretty well as a result
corobo 8y ago
Well just the other day there was a bug that causes iOS to restart if a webpage is structured in a particular way Edit for more information: I've been using iOS 12 on my SE for a while (beta) and while in all honesty I've not really found anything particularly great, more importantly I've not had any non-beta-related issues - slowdowns or otherwise I am looking forward to playing with shortcuts, but have yet to
- saagarjha 8y ago
  This hasn't been fixed; the build that went out was the same as the golden master seeded to developers last week that was still susceptible.
- ivraatiems 8y ago
  Is this triggered by many "real" websites, or just by a site that's designed to trigger it, e. g. a proof of concept? Is it a security risk or just annoying?
  - saagarjha 8y ago
    It was a proof of concept; something like a thousand divs overflowing a buffer or something like that. I haven't seen anyone write an exploit for it.
  - viraptor 8y ago
    Common theme in application security: crashes are either exploitable, or not yet exploitable. Unless the app crashes in a completely static and 100% repeatable way, there's a good chance someone is working on creating a specific, exploitable setup using it...
saagarjha 8y ago
iOS 12 will likely not be iPhone SE's last update, since iPhone 5S got the update this year. And iOS 12 specifically focuses on performance for older devices.
- thijsvandien 8y ago
  Until a couple of days ago, the SE was still on sale directly from Apple. I expect many more major updates to come.
  - akvadrako 8y ago
    Right - it should be at least 3 years more.
    - MBCook 8y ago
      Plus it’s the same as an iPhone 6s. So no reason to drop support unless you’re also going to drop that. When it goes unless they’re making a very specific decision to remove the smallest screen size there’s going to be a LOT of phones getting cut.
satysin 8y ago
It did wonders for my 5S and 6 Plus in terms of performance. Edit: should clarify I have been running the beta and upgraded to the GM last night. Performance during the beta cycle and release version has been fantastic.
augustocallejas 8y ago
I was also on iOS 10 on my iPhone SE until a couple weeks ago. The blocker for me was that I wasn't able to open my credit card app anymore to see my balance, because they stopped supporting iOS 10 (there were other app updates that were pending my iOS upgrade). I upgraded to 11.4.1. I'm hoping to stay on that until iOS 13 is announced. I prefer stability, so I prefer staying on the latest minor version of each iOS release.
- ivraatiems 8y ago
  Waiting until I'm forced, then going for the most stable minor version is my current plan.
- saagarjha 8y ago
  iOS 12 has been significantly more stable for me than iOS 11, even back when it was in its early betas. So I wouldn't hesitate to not update.
- kstrauser 8y ago
  In my personal experience, and from reading what pretty much all other beta testers have said, iOS 12 is faster and more stable than any iOS 11 release.
squaredpants 8y ago
You are still on iOS 10?
m3kw9 8y ago
If all the things work for you and you are ok with unpatched vulnerabilities, stay that way.
jmull 8y ago
From the arstechnica benchmarks (linked in another comment on this page), it looks on par with iOS 10.
aphextron 8y ago
I've been on the beta with my SE for a few months, you should be fine.
ksec 8y ago
I think you should, it is the best iOS release since the original iOS. The SE has the internal of 6s, and I was originally planning to upgrade my 6s Plus to Xr, but after iOS 12 update I am convinced this phone will last me another year if not more, assuming subsequent iOS update don't slow my phone again. It just felt as if it was new when it came with iOS 9.
illumin8 8y ago
The number 1 reason is that you're operating an older, insecure version of iOS and you could get your entire device compromised just by getting a malicious text message or visiting the wrong web page.
OkGoDoIt 8y ago
I’ve been running the beta on my SE and my main complaint is much of the UI seems optimized for the newer, larger screens. So expect additional scrolling, etc (even with the os text size set to minimum). Feels kinda like how Gmail/Google keeps adding extra padding and reducing useful screen estate.
trevor-e 8y ago
Many of the major app developers only support two OS versions back, eg iOS 11 and iOS 12 now. If you don't upgrade then you might stop getting updates for some apps.
newscracker 8y ago
As someone else pointed out, security is a good reason to upgrade, since iOS 10 hasn't seen updates for longer than a year and since iOS 12 is a performance focused release. At the same time, I hate the change that came with iOS 11 for WiFi and Bluetooth in Control Center. Toggling them only disconnects them temporarily, and doesn't turn the radios off. WiFi and Bluetooth will automatically reconnect if you go to a different location or at 5 in the morning local time. So Control Center is useless if you want to turn off the radios (to save on battery, depending on your location and other factors) and/or want control on when and where they connect and/or want to stay off the grid on your own terms and also enhance security. You have to go to the Settings app to turn them off completely or use Siri, and neither of these actions are as easy to do as using Control Center. This behavior remains the same in iOS 12 too. When this change was added in iOS 11, EFF wrote an article about how harmful this new behavior is. [1] That said, some (or many) people do like the new behavior in iOS 11, where they don't have to remember that they turned off the radios and want to connect automatically. For security's sake, especially when you have a device that's capable of getting updates for several years, it's better to keep it up-to-date. [1]: https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2017/10/ios-11s-misleading-ish-setting-bluetooth-and-wi-fi-bad-user-security https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2017/10/ios-11s-misleading-ish...

I'm still on iOS 10 on my iPhone SE. Why should I upgrade? Even if there was a convincing reason to, I'm afraid performance will tank, as it often does on older iPhones getting their last update.

adpirz 8y ago

"iOS 12 on the iPhone 5S, iPhone 6 Plus, and iPad Mini 2: It’s actually faster!" https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2018/09/ios-12-on-the-iphone-5s-iphone-6-plus-and-ipad-mini-2-its-actually-faster/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2018/09/ios-12-on-the-iphone...

ivraatiems 8y ago
This is persuasive, but I wonder why they didn't test the SE. Maybe because the 5S is older but quite similar/appeals to the same market?
- edbaskerville 8y ago
  The SE is basically a 6 in the 5S form factor.
  - xuki 8y ago
    6s
  - masklinn 8y ago
    It has the 6S's internal hardware, not the 6's. So it's way more powerful than the 6, let alone the 5S.
    - ahakki 8y ago
      There are actually two phones called iphone se. It was updated from iphone6 hardware to iphone6s hardware partway through it’s life cycle withou a change to the name. The updated SE is also availible in rose gold while the original was not.
      - deergomoo 8y ago
        That is not true at all. There’s only ever been one SE and it was always based on the 6S hardware. The closest thing to a refresh was a mid-cycle bump to the base storage.
      - wlesieutre 8y ago
        The iPhone SE launched with 6S internals and has never been changed except for a storage bump and a price drop.
earenndil 8y ago
Faster than ios 11. Unclear if it's faster than ios 10.

sawmurai 8y ago

What about security updates?

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

artimaeis 8y ago

Security updates and significant speed improvements are sufficient reason to upgrade, I'd think. Siri Shortcuts is also a pretty incredible feature if you're a power-user.

ivraatiems 8y ago
Security updates are probably the most compelling reason. I'm extremely skeptical of claimed speed improvements. Are there third party benchmarks? Are these improvements over iOS 11, or iOS 10? iOS 11 was an absolute horror show from that and many other aspects.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- saagarjha 8y ago
  Over iOS 11. And I encourage you try try iOS 12; I've been using it for three months and it's been really fast in my experience.
- jug 8y ago
  There were issues with the scheduler in the kernel code in iOS 11 that IIRC had lingered since iOS 7. The difference can be pretty remarkable. Basically iOS can ramp up resources where they are needed much more quickly, so one might say it’s using the CPU more efficiently. It eliminates a lot of stuttering for me. I was worried it might come at the cost of battery life but I haven’t seen many differences there besides some iteration during the beta.
- mattkevan 8y ago
  Been using the beta on my 6S for the last month or so and the speed increase is noticable. The keyboard especially feels faster and more fluid. They’re definitely wanting to shut down the ‘apple slowed down my device!!1’ narrative with this one.
- rimliu 8y ago
  https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2018/09/ios-12-on-the-iphone-5s-iphone-6-plus-and-ipad-mini-2-its-actually-faster/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2018/09/ios-12-on-the-iphone...

eridius 8y ago

One of the main focuses of iOS 12 was improving performance across the board, especially for older phones.

FabHK 8y ago
And I'm on iOS 11 on the SE, and it works just fine. So 12 should be ok.
- kmundnic 8y ago
  I'm using iOS 11 on an almost 4 years old iPhone 6, and it works fine for me too.

tcfunk 8y ago

Yeah I'm hoping 12 delivers on the performance improvements it is promising. iOS 11 all but bricked my 6 plus.

donovanh 8y ago
Been using it for months on my 6 and it’s great
rashkov 8y ago
Also had a bad experience on my 6 Plus, but then I did a factory reset of the phone and it has been performing pretty well as a result

corobo 8y ago

Well just the other day there was a bug that causes iOS to restart if a webpage is structured in a particular way Edit for more information: I've been using iOS 12 on my SE for a while (beta) and while in all honesty I've not really found anything particularly great, more importantly I've not had any non-beta-related issues - slowdowns or otherwise I am looking forward to playing with shortcuts, but have yet to

saagarjha 8y ago
This hasn't been fixed; the build that went out was the same as the golden master seeded to developers last week that was still susceptible.
ivraatiems 8y ago
Is this triggered by many "real" websites, or just by a site that's designed to trigger it, e. g. a proof of concept? Is it a security risk or just annoying?
- saagarjha 8y ago
  It was a proof of concept; something like a thousand divs overflowing a buffer or something like that. I haven't seen anyone write an exploit for it.
- viraptor 8y ago
  Common theme in application security: crashes are either exploitable, or not yet exploitable. Unless the app crashes in a completely static and 100% repeatable way, there's a good chance someone is working on creating a specific, exploitable setup using it...

saagarjha 8y ago

iOS 12 will likely not be iPhone SE's last update, since iPhone 5S got the update this year. And iOS 12 specifically focuses on performance for older devices.

thijsvandien 8y ago
Until a couple of days ago, the SE was still on sale directly from Apple. I expect many more major updates to come.
- akvadrako 8y ago
  Right - it should be at least 3 years more.
  - MBCook 8y ago
    Plus it’s the same as an iPhone 6s. So no reason to drop support unless you’re also going to drop that. When it goes unless they’re making a very specific decision to remove the smallest screen size there’s going to be a LOT of phones getting cut.

satysin 8y ago

It did wonders for my 5S and 6 Plus in terms of performance. Edit: should clarify I have been running the beta and upgraded to the GM last night. Performance during the beta cycle and release version has been fantastic.

augustocallejas 8y ago

I was also on iOS 10 on my iPhone SE until a couple weeks ago. The blocker for me was that I wasn't able to open my credit card app anymore to see my balance, because they stopped supporting iOS 10 (there were other app updates that were pending my iOS upgrade). I upgraded to 11.4.1. I'm hoping to stay on that until iOS 13 is announced. I prefer stability, so I prefer staying on the latest minor version of each iOS release.

ivraatiems 8y ago
Waiting until I'm forced, then going for the most stable minor version is my current plan.
saagarjha 8y ago
iOS 12 has been significantly more stable for me than iOS 11, even back when it was in its early betas. So I wouldn't hesitate to not update.
kstrauser 8y ago
In my personal experience, and from reading what pretty much all other beta testers have said, iOS 12 is faster and more stable than any iOS 11 release.

squaredpants 8y ago

You are still on iOS 10?

m3kw9 8y ago

If all the things work for you and you are ok with unpatched vulnerabilities, stay that way.

jmull 8y ago

From the arstechnica benchmarks (linked in another comment on this page), it looks on par with iOS 10.

aphextron 8y ago

I've been on the beta with my SE for a few months, you should be fine.

ksec 8y ago

I think you should, it is the best iOS release since the original iOS. The SE has the internal of 6s, and I was originally planning to upgrade my 6s Plus to Xr, but after iOS 12 update I am convinced this phone will last me another year if not more, assuming subsequent iOS update don't slow my phone again. It just felt as if it was new when it came with iOS 9.

illumin8 8y ago

The number 1 reason is that you're operating an older, insecure version of iOS and you could get your entire device compromised just by getting a malicious text message or visiting the wrong web page.

OkGoDoIt 8y ago

I’ve been running the beta on my SE and my main complaint is much of the UI seems optimized for the newer, larger screens. So expect additional scrolling, etc (even with the os text size set to minimum). Feels kinda like how Gmail/Google keeps adding extra padding and reducing useful screen estate.

trevor-e 8y ago

Many of the major app developers only support two OS versions back, eg iOS 11 and iOS 12 now. If you don't upgrade then you might stop getting updates for some apps.

newscracker 8y ago

As someone else pointed out, security is a good reason to upgrade, since iOS 10 hasn't seen updates for longer than a year and since iOS 12 is a performance focused release. At the same time, I hate the change that came with iOS 11 for WiFi and Bluetooth in Control Center. Toggling them only disconnects them temporarily, and doesn't turn the radios off. WiFi and Bluetooth will automatically reconnect if you go to a different location or at 5 in the morning local time. So Control Center is useless if you want to turn off the radios (to save on battery, depending on your location and other factors) and/or want control on when and where they connect and/or want to stay off the grid on your own terms and also enhance security. You have to go to the Settings app to turn them off completely or use Siri, and neither of these actions are as easy to do as using Control Center. This behavior remains the same in iOS 12 too. When this change was added in iOS 11, EFF wrote an article about how harmful this new behavior is. [1] That said, some (or many) people do like the new behavior in iOS 11, where they don't have to remember that they turned off the radios and want to connect automatically. For security's sake, especially when you have a device that's capable of getting updates for several years, it's better to keep it up-to-date. [1]: https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2017/10/ios-11s-misleading-ish-setting-bluetooth-and-wi-fi-bad-user-security https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2017/10/ios-11s-misleading-ish...